They say English is hard . . .

As escaped said yesterday at 16:16, it is easier to learn further languages once you have mastered one foreign language.

I was told by a foreign language teacher that it opens pathways in the brain, therefore learning a second foreign language will be easier.

Having had to actually sit down and learn German I am sometimes at an advantage over my fellow singers in the choir as to what endings to use, as they only know their dialect versions, which are not always the correct ones. Also, whilst still working, I often found myself correcting my German colleagues' German spelling and grammar. I shared an office with a French girl who was in a similar position. (Except that we occasionally had to ask each other what gender something was.)

As escaped said yesterday at 16:16, it is easier to learn further languages once you have mastered one foreign language. Monolingual children have difficulty understanding that two completely different words can mean the same thing. You can see this with weights and measures too, or working in different bases in maths.

Check out Bobby Finn videos on YouTube and TikTok 😀

www.tiktok.com/@itsbobbyfinn/video/7420907264220941610

escaped

There's lots of houses round here called ti plus something or other. I think ty is also house in Welsh (??), so there are similarities.

Yes, when DH and I were on holiday on the Granite Rose coast we thought the place names were very Welsh.

One doesn't realise just how hard English is to learn until, as a TEFL teacher, explanations are frustrating : think of cough, rough, through, though, thought - leading to blank expressions and questions of "why". Well, there is no answer to that of course. My students were lovely, but being seniors they struggled to accept that there are no rules for pronunciation. Nevertheless we had great fun together.

😂 Little House!

Yes, and Ty Bach can also mean the loo!

Allira

RosieandherMaw

I meant to add- that puts our young people at an immediate disadvantage in the jobs market if they only have what is often dismissed as “schoolboy French”

What makes me very cross is that in Wales pupils have to take Welsh to GCSE level and, although it is a home language, it counts as their one compulsory foreign language.

The take-up of foreign languages in Wales is very poor in comparison to England.

It is such an insular outlook by the Welsh Government.

It is the same in my country of origin. Students must study their respective mother tongue languages (Malay, Mandarin or Tamil) as their second language compulsory up to A levels. English is the language of instruction in schools.

As part of their tradition, during National Day, the prime minister addresses the nation in three different languages – English, Malay (also considered as their national language and language of the indigenous people) and Mandarin.

Apparently, he had to take extra lessons in Malay and Mandarin.

There's lots of houses round here called ti plus something or other. I think ty is also house in Welsh (??), so there are similarities.

It’s not compulsory to take any foreign language in England to GCSE level
😯 I didn't know that! Very short-sighted. My own DC had to take French, plus the option of German if they wished.

escaped

^I also think if you can learn two languages, whatever they are, you can learn others more easily.^ Good point, * Casdon*. Mine are French and German, with some Italian.
I've been learning Breton for a while. It's not really like any other language I know, but I'm mastering it! Maybe because my mother was Welsh, she didn't speak any English until she was 10, and spoke to me in diferent languages, including Afrikaans, as a child.

My Welsh speaking family can communicate in Breton. They go there to dance the Twmpath!

escaped

^I also think if you can learn two languages, whatever they are, you can learn others more easily.^ Good point, * Casdon*. Mine are French and German, with some Italian.
I've been learning Breton for a while. It's not really like any other language I know, but I'm mastering it! Maybe because my mother was Welsh, she didn't speak any English until she was 10, and spoke to me in diferent languages, including Afrikaans, as a child.

Apparently "window" is "ffenestr" in Welsh and "fenestr" in Breton
But both words must have origins in Latin (fenestra)

One of my favourite Welsh place names is Dinbych-y-pysgod, pysgod having its origins in Latin for fish.

Mollygo

Allira I think it’s to keep the Welsh Language alive. My nieces both have to study Welsh. One of them finds it easy, and does French as well, the other doesn’t and sees herself as a failure, so is reluctant to try any other languages.

I'm all for keeping it alive

Just don't make it compulsory to GCSE level and count it as the one necessary foreign language.
One DGD just passed it and also did the 'Welsh Baccalaureate' such as it is, alongside GCSEs.

I also think if you can learn two languages, whatever they are, you can learn others more easily. Good point, * Casdon*. Mine are French and German, with some Italian.
I've been learning Breton for a while. It's not really like any other language I know, but I'm mastering it! Maybe because my mother was Welsh, she didn't speak any English until she was 10, and spoke to me in diferent languages, including Afrikaans, as a child.

Allira

RosieandherMaw

I meant to add- that puts our young people at an immediate disadvantage in the jobs market if they only have what is often dismissed as “schoolboy French”

What makes me very cross is that in Wales pupils have to take Welsh to GCSE level and, although it is a home language, it counts as their one compulsory foreign language.

The take-up of foreign languages in Wales is very poor in comparison to England.

It is such an insular outlook by the Welsh Government.

Unless they want to stay and work in Wales, obviously. It’s a compulsory requirement for many jobs here.

I also think if you can learn two languages, whatever they are, you can learn others more easily. It’s not compulsory to take any foreign language in England to GCSE level, so in that sense Welsh children are advantaged.

Allira I think it’s to keep the Welsh Language alive. My nieces both have to study Welsh. One of them finds it easy, and does French as well, the other doesn’t and sees herself as a failure, so is reluctant to try any other languages.

RosieandherMaw

I meant to add- that puts our young people at an immediate disadvantage in the jobs market if they only have what is often dismissed as “schoolboy French”

What makes me very cross is that in Wales pupils have to take Welsh to GCSE level and, although it is a home language, it counts as their one compulsory foreign language.

The take-up of foreign languages in Wales is very poor in comparison to England.

It is such an insular outlook by the Welsh Government.

Witzend

*Allira*, my dd had a foreign language degree, and also took a CELTA course not long afterwards. It was an intensive one-month course - I warned her that it'd be hard going - she didn’t believe me until reality hit! Had thought she’d still be out partying almost every night.

However the course was invaluable when she went travelling not long afterwards - she was able to get TEFL jobs quite easily in various countries, supporting herself for 2 years. And the final job (teaching children for free in a Cambodian orphanage - in a prime tourist area where English would be very useful to them) led into her eventual career in the humanitarian sector.

Yes, it opens a whole new world!

Allira, my dd had a foreign language degree, and also took a CELTA course not long afterwards. It was an intensive one-month course - I warned her that it'd be hard going - she didn’t believe me until reality hit! Had thought she’d still be out partying almost every night.

However the course was invaluable when she went travelling not long afterwards - she was able to get TEFL jobs quite easily in various countries, supporting herself for 2 years. And the final job (teaching children for free in a Cambodian orphanage - in a prime tourist area where English would be very useful to them) led into her eventual career in the humanitarian sector.

I was lucky in that our primary school ran an experiment teaching us French by an "audio-visual" method from an early age and I am fairly fluent even today. What I and my expat friends here in Germany noticed is that learning French if you are coming from English is far easier than if you are coming from German.

Just saying - French could be even harder to learn!

I meant to add- that puts our young people at an immediate disadvantage in the jobs market if they only have what is often dismissed as “schoolboy French”

What I think many people don’t realise, is that it’s a very different thing from (say) a native English speaker teaching e.g. French or German to a class of ditto native speakers .
There are so many aspects you don’t even think about as a native speaker. My TEFL Thomson and Martinet ‘bible’ was an eye opener when I first started

Agree 100% Actually in the same way, as a former MFL HoD I found some native speaker French and German teachers - I especially remember one of each - sometimes made the same mistake of thinking some language concepts obvious or “easy”.
Where their own English had occasional slip-ups much hilarity could ensue and sometimes it was hard to keep a straight face.
In my early days as an MFL teacher I took a holiday job one year teaching English to French students and as you say, an eye opener!
I have two nieces- one half Brazilian who is a native Portuguese speaker /bilingual and her half sister who is half Singapore Chinese and bilingual Cantonese/English as well as learning Mandarin as a child.
I so envy them both as our young people these days are not, on the whole, fluent in other languages. I blame American culture- pop music, films etc
Not many years ago one of the big companies, maybe VW announced that those applying to work for them must be fluent in two languages- so that’s most of Europe as all the teenagers I ever came across in mainland Europe seemed to speak (Americanised) English as well as their own language.

Oh why can’t we have feminism infoman ?

English is easy learn no masculine or feminism its its structure.

If any one is learning English its best done by some who is English,although there are two areas of England I would not want to be taught English by.
If you are a grand parent or a parent just try to get your children and grand children to learn French as early as they can,as I found French the most difficult of the European languages and French is not a very for giving language.

Witzend

growstuff

I agree with you Witzend. I'm a former German/French teacher and did EFL training as another string to my bow (not bough ). English is much harder for foreigners than most native English speakers realise.

What I think many people don’t realise, is that it’s a very different thing from (say) a native English speaker teaching e.g. French or German to a class of ditto native speakers.
There are so many aspects you don’t even think about as a native speaker. My TEFL Thomson and Martinet ‘bible’ was an eye opener when I first started.

That’s why I get a bit worked up when people blithely say, ‘Oh, why would you need training to teach English? If you can speak it…’ etc.
And maybe you can teach it after a fashion, but IMO students paying often hard-earned money deserve something better.

Yes, DD has a degree and took a CELTA course when she decided on a career change.