Grooming gangs. Where are the parents?

Iam64

Work meant I often visited children in residential care establishments. It’s inaccurate to say that staff didn’t care about the children living there. Simple responses to complex problems never add anything constructive to discussions like this

I have worked for Social Services, everything can seem fine on the surface/ not saying all the staff but certain few didn’t give a dam about our residents. I left in the end.

Safeguarding issues in Mosques was a worry forty years ago. It was rather like it had been in Churches, closed powerful communities.

One of our family now aged thirty talked about beatings at their Friday afternoon children’s session at the mosque. Her dad refused to get involved so their mum marched down and told the Imam if he touched any of her four children she’d bring the police. It worked for her children
I posted earlier that I thought it very unlikely the “grooming gang” men will have confined their sexual abuse outside their family networkd

I think we will find that child abuse is just as extensive in non-white non-Christian communities as anywhee else.

These things come out when communities open up. On the basis of your arguments butterandjam, paedophilia was a rare and uncommon perversion in any community, Christian, non-Christian, whether your skin was any shade from white to black and regardless of your fame and money until at least the 1970s. Accusations, prosecutions and convistions were almost unknown.

When society reached a level where people were prepared to talk about these issues and investigations took place, it became clear that paedophilia had always been there, the extensive historical stories of such abuse in care homes, schools and other communities that came out went back to before WW2.

It will be the same with todays more conservative, closed communities, once it starts being talked about it will be found that paedophilia is and has been just as extensive in their communities as elsewhere.

butterandjam

Claremont

The fact the vast majority are white is very important for people to be aware of in the UK. But perhaps even more important abroad, as far right leaders are using the stories to say the UK is over-run by Indian abusers of white girls. Even Musk and Trump have been using those stories, and totally ignoring the vast majority are white.

ALL grooming gangs are vile and despicable, ALL.

Jeffrey Epstein, Tom Hamilton, Jimmy Saville, Fred West.

All longterm paedophiles with multiple victims.
All operated in plain sight.
While they were still alive and active, complaints and reports had been ignored or swept under the carpet.

Let's see, what else do they have in common.

All white.
All born in western culture.
All died suddenly.

Who was protected by their sudden demise?

And abused in (white) religious institutions on a mass scale historically.

I have checked and there are clear records of abuse within Mosques as well. It seems to be universal. shame on them all: but in terms of mosques I was glad to say its being tackled as it is slowly within the Christian tradition

mcb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/The-MCB-guide-for-Safeguarding-Children-at-Mosques-and-Madrassahs.pdf

what is more, they are being prosecuted, there are examples online, I give this as an example:

www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/religious-leader-found-guilty-of-child-sex-abuse-321260/

If anything, the prosecution of these Iman seems to be faster than those Christians sheltering under our Catholic and C of E institutions with high levels of protection...John Smyth et al, anyone?

It’s very sad and all starts much earlier - poverty, lack of education, traumatic childhood, family culture, lack of love , lack of attachment, emotional or physical abuse, domestic abuse , chaotic parenting ( because of the parent’s own problems - not necessarily lack of love ) , victim blaming , malnutrition, alcohol and drug abuse, foetal alcohol syndrome , children being moved around in the care system ( and how often have we seen that that is abusive too?) and the child’s own personality and character in all of this which has been formed by experiences plus genetics beyond their control. How big a list is needed … it goes on and on . What you will find is there are rarely any well off middle class girls who are victims here ( that is not to say they are also not subject to abuse but it is dealt with in a different way or well hidden) . What is true is that these girls have all been completely failed by a social care , educational and legal system ( including police ) who do not have enough resources, expertise or training . Yes it is hard to keep any adolescent or child completely safe but I believe research does show that the vast majority of abused children have a background of trauma and chaos , poverty and lack of care . I am not saying that any single thing is the reason so don’t start with the ‘ I was poor and this never happened ‘ It is multi factorial and complex. .

Jimmy Saville was 84 and died after having pneumonia

Claremont

The fact the vast majority are white is very important for people to be aware of in the UK. But perhaps even more important abroad, as far right leaders are using the stories to say the UK is over-run by Indian abusers of white girls. Even Musk and Trump have been using those stories, and totally ignoring the vast majority are white.

ALL grooming gangs are vile and despicable, ALL.

Jeffrey Epstein, Tom Hamilton, Jimmy Saville, Fred West.

All longterm paedophiles with multiple victims.
All operated in plain sight.
While they were still alive and active, complaints and reports had been ignored or swept under the carpet.

Let's see, what else do they have in common.

All white.
All born in western culture.
All died suddenly.

Who was protected by their sudden demise?

It seems to be a double headed sword- on the one hand hiding the ethnicity of some perpetrators, and on the other, hiding the fact that the vast majority are white.

Both very wrong, and both play into extremism.

That may well be the case, but sometimes actions speak for themselves, such as the mass assaults of young women in Cologne another fiasco covered up. Denials and lack of transparency will only play into extemism. As we've seen in parts of mainland Europe. Lately Germany, Denmark, Sweden have employed heavier handed tactics with possibly more of an emphasis in educating immigrant demographics in what is permissible in western culture particularly pertaining to women and girls.

There’s none so blind as those that refuse to see. The majority of people in the UK are white, although that is reducing rapidly, so the majority of abuse could be by white abusers. However, in all the historical and current cases that are being hushed up and now discussed the overwhelming majority are Pakistani. They are overwhelmingly represented in areas where they live and given there are only a smaller percentage of them in the UK the figures show they are hugely representative. Some might bury their heads in the sand and refuse to accept it, but it’s true enough that the government have been forced into this enquiry because of them. The government didn’t want it, successive governments didn’t want it, but now they’re forced to face it. It would be good if the apologists and deniers here would do likewise.
These girls may be feral, wayward, come from poor homes whatever. They did not deserve this abuse.

TerriBull ''"The vast majority are white and British" because the population of the country is predominantly white and British. confused to be expected surely. ''

well of course. But the reporting in the Press, especially one section of the Press, only portrays the Pakistani gangs- and therefore give the impression, in the UK, but even more so abroad, as they are used ad manipulated by the far Right, and also Trump and Musk, but all grooming gangs are foreign and non-white. That is the issue.

pinkquartz

where i lived the abusers were all pakistani men.
I wrote about this on GN many years ago but my post was ignored.

I think the main problem is the way men get away with disgusting behaviour in our society. Not as bad as some countries but far worse than is ok.

there needs to be a good look at the atttudes being imported. I worry for my DGC as things are not getting any better.

What do you mean by

'there needs to be a good look at the attitudes being imported?

as the vast majority of grooming gangs are white and British (including women too!). Do you think they have copied Pakistani men?

I t is not Indian abusers.....it is Pakistani abusers. it is very disrespectful call out the wrong ethnicity.

I realise what I am writing doesn't really fit on this thread which wants to point the finger of blame at the poor girls parents.

where i lived the abusers were all pakistani men.
I wrote about this on GN many years ago but my post was ignored.

I think the main problem is the way men get away with disgusting behaviour in our society. Not as bad as some countries but far worse than is ok.

there needs to be a good look at the atttudes being imported. I worry for my DGC as things are not getting any better.

"The vast majority are white and British" because the population of the country is predominantly white and British. to be expected surely. What the enquiry will focus on, is whether the Pakistani groomers are over represented as a percentage of their numbers. I don't know why it has to be stated ad in finitum, "ah but there are more British sex abusers" surely that would be the case which ever country were under to be under the spotlight, of course the settled population whose numbrs exceed other demographics would be the most prevalent in whatever was being examined.

The fact the vast majority are white is very important for people to be aware of in the UK. But perhaps even more important abroad, as far right leaders are using the stories to say the UK is over-run by Indian abusers of white girls. Even Musk and Trump have been using those stories, and totally ignoring the vast majority are white.

ALL grooming gangs are vile and despicable, ALL.

petra

Claremont

what difference would it make if said boyfriends were 'ethnic' or not? Wow!

We all know that many grooming gangs were not 'ethnic' at all. I remember seeing the photos recently of those from Stoke!

A line from Hansard.
in the local data examined from 3 police forces the audit identifies clear evidence of over representation amongst suspects of Asian and Pakistani heritage men
So you’re saying this isn’t true?

Of course not. Where on earth have I said that? What I asked is that would have made it any difference about what to do, if older BF had been white.

It was totally wrong to attempt to hide the ethnicity of some grooming gangs, 100%. But it is also wrong to pretend that all grooming gangs were of Indian or Pakistani origin, especially as the vast majortiy were white, and British.

As I said earlier, I have one next door to me, and for a while, there was a girl living there who was constantly running away. The staff couldn't physically stop there, and just had to phone the police every time she did a runner.

Quote ViceVersa Fri 20-Jun-25 11:45:03
Anniebach
Are there no house rules in children’s care homes ?
Yes there are, but the staff cannot physically stop a child from leaving. They are not allowed to lay hands on them. There's a limit to what they can do to enforce the rules.

Thank you, I know nothing of children care homes,

I am glad he got a prison sentence if only eventually and pleased she has made a life for herself, but speaking from experience, she won’t ever forget what happened in the place where she should have been safest, her home.
She was never the problem. He was.

Anniebach

Are there no house rules in children’s care homes ?

Yes there are, but the staff cannot physically stop a child from leaving. They are not allowed to lay hands on them. There's a limit to what they can do to enforce the rules.

silverlining48

David “one of my nieces was a problem due to abuse by father… “ your post yesterday evening.
I have a problem with that statement because it was not your niece who was the problem but the father.
She was returned home every tine, to be abused again, !
It’s hardly surprising she went off the rails, it happens all the time.
The problem was the father.

The whole family was dominated by him at 14 what relationship there was had broken down and she did as she pleased with friends she did trust. He did get jailed eventually.

Visited her last year she’s nearly finished her airforce service, together with her partner they have built a gorgeous house just outside Brisbane, so pleased.

Parsley3

David49

One of my niece's was a problem due to abuse by father at home absconded often from 14 to 16 police brought her home repeatedly but would do the same a few days later.

She lived in Australia and was never taken into care or groomed as far as Ive heard, at 16 she left home and lived rough, at 18 she joined the Air Force and found her family there, 20 yrs on still serving.

In the UK she would have gone into care but it would not have made any difference rebellious children treat it as a game run away police take them back but there are no locked doors so they are out a few days later. They all think it’s fun until they are hooked on drugs and out of control.

I had to read this post several times to be fair to my interpretation of it.
A child being abused by her father isn't absconding she is trying to stop the abuse and she managed to do that when she was still a child of 16. She was not a rebellious child playing a game and having fun. Was the father every held to account?
Well done your brave neice for finding her family.

You interpreted that wrongly she was running away because of the abuse, at that stage she hadn’t accused her father so the police couldn’t do anything but the damage had been done.
He did eventually get jailed, the relationship with her mother had broken down, it was an awful mess.

Well yes but enforcing rules is incredibly difficult. How would you stop a child determined to leave.

Are there no house rules in children’s care homes ?