It doesn’t make sense.

Mollygo

MayBee70

Isn’t the argument that we would be better off eating the food that we’re feeding the cattle to make the beef which then produce methane? Avocados have the worst carbon footprint of any food I believe.

The argument in the OP is exactly what you put re avocados having the worst carbon footprint.

Yes!

MayBee70

Isn’t the argument that we would be better off eating the food that we’re feeding the cattle to make the beef which then produce methane? Avocados have the worst carbon footprint of any food I believe.

The argument in the OP is exactly what you put re avocados having the worst carbon footprint.

Colls
Perhaps rid the world of all meat eaters?
All the carnivores and omnivores from lions through to humans, birds to spiders?

I'm trying to envisage such a world.

Colls

I wish I could understand how people who eat meat, don't think of that animal's last moments just before slaughter. The fear, the powerlessness; how do people put that out of their minds and eat the meat?
I'm not trying to be political or disruptive or anything, I just wish I could understand.

Well I guess it is something to do with the fact that the divine designer, or some other chance occurrence, created a world that is predicated on kill or be killed, eat or be eaten.

Personally, had I been a divine being I would have gone for something a bit less cruel. But there we are; it is what it is.

I accept that this is the way of the world - I might not like it, but there it is.

At least we have developed humane refinements to this barbaric set up.

MayBee70

Air miles I assume. Maybe they need a lot of water, too?

I know how avocados are grown.

"General Estimates:
A small pack of two avocados can have a carbon footprint of around 846.36g CO2, according to Carbon Footprint Ltd. This is comparable to a large cappuccino or almost twice the amount of a kilo of bananas, according to a study.
Comparison with other foods:
Avocados have a significantly lower footprint than many animal products, like beef or lamb, but are higher than some other fruits like bananas.
Factors Influencing the Footprint:
Transportation: Avocados often travel long distances, particularly from growing regions like Mexico to markets in the Global North, contributing to their carbon footprint.
Water Usage: Avocado production requires significant amounts of water, especially in arid regions, leading to potential water scarcity issues and environmental damage.
Deforestation: Avocado farming, particularly in areas like Michoacán, Mexico, has been linked to deforestation as land is cleared for plantations.
Land Use: Avocado farming can also impact soil health and biodiversity"

Air miles I assume. Maybe they need a lot of water, too?

MayBee70

Isn’t the argument that we would be better off eating the food that we’re feeding the cattle to make the beef which then produce methane? Avocados have the worst carbon footprint of any food I believe.

Avocados have the worst carbon footprint of any food I believe.

Really?
Why is that?

Oh, and this year the birds have dug up half my newly-planted onions! And two years ago I strung them up in my shed as usual and they all rotted! So now I chop and freeze them. Same with peppers.

I try to grow as much veg as I can in raised beds in my (not very big) garden. I don't do brassicas cos I have never been able to defeat the cabbage white butterfly larvae, despite netting them.

But it's all hit and miss. Last year my carrots all got carrot fly (first time in 15 years!), another year they were so wonky I could barely use them. Tomatoes vary in quantity as well. Even courgettes don't grow as well as most folks' do despite all the care I give them. I can't grow spring onions cos they don't swell up till about December and then are all woody.

Two years ago I ditched the shallow strawberry pots and bought new, deeper wooden beds and new plants. They all developed the dreaded botrytis (first time ever had it) and were not only inedible but I couldn't take runners from them either. Broad beans get blackfly, and on and on it goes. I bet it costs me at least ten times the price in the supermarket, even for British veg. It's a stupid hobby for me, despite me doing my best.

If anyone has an advice on botrytis you would be my friend for life!

All that said, we do have a local butcher but as we have reduced our intake of red meat that doesn't do a lot for the planet in our case. No longer any fishmonger, fruit/veg shops or market stalls for miles.

Tesco is our only choice, sometimes Morrisons if we are going that way. It's hard to do the right thing.

Pretty much all of my veggie and vegan friends, like me, get their pets from rescue, not breeders. So we feed them what they need. And that includes meat.
It’s laughable when people accuse vegans of pushing their ‘agenda’ on others. People can eat what they want but to say animals and the environment don’t suffer in meat production is just wrong. They do. There is no such thing as humane slaughter. And to compare the ‘suffering’ of vegetables to that of farm animals is ridiculous. These aren’t opinions, they’re facts. Watch footage of pig slaughter- it’s abhorrent.
People, for now, will eat meat and that’s up to them. But people need to be more mindful going forward about what they eat. Most crops (80%) globally are grown to feed farm animals, and vast quantities of water are also required. People are starving to death in parts of the world. I just wish that there was a bit more thought about what we eat and where it comes from.

Isn’t the argument that we would be better off eating the food that we’re feeding the cattle to make the beef which then produce methane? Avocados have the worst carbon footprint of any food I believe.

Ziggy62

I've never understood this

We use village butcher and greengrocer, mostly sourced locally.
Costs a bit more but taste is so much better.

Also buy raw organic milk from nearby farm ( I know not everyone agrees that's a good idea)

It’s fine to bu

keepingquiet

Notagranyet24

Someone on MN recommended the new documentary by film maker, Adam Curtis. It's called Shifty, a set of five programmes on Iplayer.
It's about what went wrong with Britain in the 20th century, we watched the first one last night. It would answer a lot of the questions above.

It was me. I found the whole series very enlightening, but would also throw the Brexit word in here too...?

The elephant in the room….

Mollygo

Colls

I wish I could understand how people who eat meat, don't think of that animal's last moments just before slaughter. The fear, the powerlessness; how do people put that out of their minds and eat the meat?
I'm not trying to be political or disruptive or anything, I just wish I could understand.

You don’t need to understand.
You make your choice and others make theirs. That happens all the time in many subjects.
Just think of the Assisted Dying Bill or the late abortion bill as two examples of people making choices that don’t fit with yours.

You’ve already expressed your disapproval of other people’s choices simply by asking your question.

Do you always think of the agony suffered by a carrot as it is torn from the ground. Or always think of people suffering from lack of water because it is being used to grow crops?
Or always think of the desperate animals who die because their lives are ruined by ground clearance to provide crops or homes for humans.

Mollygo,
I understand many of your points. But I am not expressing disapproval of other’s choices simply by asking the question.
I really want to understand.
For my health, I know I would be better eating some meat, or at least fish, but I can't do it. I know ex-vegetarians who now eat meat. I just want to know how it's done.

Rosie51

To be honest I suppose we just don't think about that Colls or hope that when we buy organically farmed meat it has been slaughtered humanely.
My area of 'not understanding' is how vegans and vegetarians keep pets to whom they feed meat. I wonder why they think animals are OK to be farmed for other animal's food but not for human food.

Hi Rosie 51,
I am one of those people! I did so because I believe that (wild or good quality, local, grass-fed meat) is close to a dog's natural diet - as I think it is probably ours.
For myself, I bought wild meat or local organic farm meat for my dog, as you say, hoping it was slaughtered at least humainly - but it was still slaughtered of course.
But my dog, as all humans, live in artificial circumstances (locked in a house, walks on leads, you know) but, she was not aware of the farming industry - as we are.
I did what I believed was best and most natural for her. Just as I took her to the vet to have medicine (that would have been tested on animals.) I protest, but also use those medicines.

I do partially agree with those who say keeping pets is unnatural but, for me, the companionship of a dog is one of the best things in life.
I would like to eat meat and fish, I think it good for us in moderation, but I know about the meat industry so I cannot.
I know about testing medicines on animals, I disagree, but I do take them I am to say.

For myself, I cannot eat meat. But then. animal by-products are used in probably 95% of what we use. As an example, animal glue, enzymes etc. are in just about everything we buy.
We all can only draw the line in the sand as we can. That one is mine.

Colls

I wish I could understand how people who eat meat, don't think of that animal's last moments just before slaughter. The fear, the powerlessness; how do people put that out of their minds and eat the meat?
I'm not trying to be political or disruptive or anything, I just wish I could understand.

You don’t need to understand.
You make your choice and others make theirs. That happens all the time in many subjects.
Just think of the Assisted Dying Bill or the late abortion bill as two examples of people making choices that don’t fit with yours.

You’ve already expressed your disapproval of other people’s choices simply by asking your question.

Do you always think of the agony suffered by a carrot as it is torn from the ground. Or always think of people suffering from lack of water because it is being used to grow crops?
Or always think of the desperate animals who die because their lives are ruined by ground clearance to provide crops or homes for humans.

When the recent asparagus season started I thought oh good, I love British asparagus. We have our groceries delivered now as I no longer drive, so I ordered some from Ocado. Imagine my dismay when it was delivered and it was from abroad. Asparagus is grown in the county next to ours for goodness sake. I made sure that I checked my next delivery. Far superior, and British.

Fog=dog

We know of a nearby tomato grower and thought it would be great to buy from there rather than store bought, long travelled tomatoes from the supermarket.
When we contacted them we found a family box was 1.5 kg and cost £12. The cheapest find was huge beefsteak tomatoes with a kilo for £7. Smaller amounts can't be purchased (a kilo at once is too much for 2 of us).
We just can't afford to buy local which just seems totally crazy as the tomatoes journey could be reduced to under 5 miles.

Not enough agricultural human labourers here. It is seasonal and the migrants don't go back but want to stay here

Snowbelle
Our supermarket carrots last daily well, but they are shared between us, the fog and the tortoise, so get used up fairly quickly.

While discussing vegetables, please may someone explain "modern" carrots to me? They now come in a plastic bag at room temperature from the supermarket. If I leave them in the bag at room temperature they disintegrate rapidly to "mush". If I take them out of the bag, dry them and put them in the fridge on kitchen paper, they last reasonably well, but not many days. If I put them out in the "vegetable rack" e.g. with the cabbage onions and potatoes at room temperature they turn to "mush" very rapidly. When I was a child we grew our own in the garden or bought them from the local livestock (and vegetable) market. They were loose and did not deteriorate rapidly, other than eventually you might find one hidden underneath a potato in the rack at toom temperature and the carrot had become "rubbery". Could anyone explain please as my house rabbit is costing me a fortune because he can't eat a whole bag of carrots all at once.

To be honest I suppose we just don't think about that Colls or hope that when we buy organically farmed meat it has been slaughtered humanely.
My area of 'not understanding' is how vegans and vegetarians keep pets to whom they feed meat. I wonder why they think animals are OK to be farmed for other animal's food but not for human food.

I wish I could understand how people who eat meat, don't think of that animal's last moments just before slaughter. The fear, the powerlessness; how do people put that out of their minds and eat the meat?
I'm not trying to be political or disruptive or anything, I just wish I could understand.