Trump said: “On immigration you better get your act together or you’re not going to have Europe anymore.”

My nearest neighbours are Muslim. They have had pet dogs since living here.

I don’t live in east London PoliticsNerd. I’m not sure why you’re asking me.

But East London has changed constantly through history. Why was the "change" that suited you Woodenspoon,
any different to those that went before and came after it?

Eloethan

Kandinsky I actually live in East London, which has a very high migrant population. Nearly all my neighbours originate from different parts of the world and I have never felt uncomfortable living here.

Many of the people who have negative views about immigration have never actually lived in a multicultural environment.

You might be correct in some cases but as far as I’m concerned, you’re wrong. I spent over 60 years of my life in what is now called south London although as a child we were classed as Surrey and all the better for it.

Many many people hated the change that becoming a London borough brought to our area. It changed beyond belief. My old girls grammar school, situated in leafy parkland, is now predominantly ethnic. They come in from all around London to go there. It’s supposed to be for locals but the intake doesn’t reflect the true local area. This goes for all the local grammars in that area.

If you go into the town when the schools empty out you could be forgiven for thinking you were in a third world country.

Crime has soared. Stabbings which were never heard of are now prevalent. I have been told some schools have knife arches to detect them as the kids go in. True? I don’t know but it wouldn’t surprise me.

What was a beautiful, leafy, affluent area is now run down in parts and I would never go into the town centre.

Luckily, we like many other local families, were able to vote with our feet. We sold up and moved out. The only option available and luckily we could do it.

Just another point of view as an alternative to the multi culti utopia.

I think most of us have and welcomed immigrants or children of immigrants into our families too.
Exactly, you, me and many others Allira. Again, I don't even notice or feel the need to mention it because they are family, just prople.

I haven't read the posts all through (busy) so sorry if I repeat others.

Ibelieve that, if any other person had said what the orange one said, and said it just before the anniversary of the Farage riots, they would have been arrested under incitement laws.

I can't believe we have to have him back again this year, and inflict him on our King.

Eloethan

Kandinsky I actually live in East London, which has a very high migrant population. Nearly all my neighbours originate from different parts of the world and I have never felt uncomfortable living here.

Many of the people who have negative views about immigration have never actually lived in a multicultural environment.

I think most of us have and welcomed immigrants or children of immigrants into our families too.

Best not to divide posters into two factions. It is not as simple as that and causes friction which makes sensible, rational discussion impossible.

PS. Am I supposed to make a comment on every post on GN?
No, not at all, but possibly it would be polite to comment if a poster quotes your post, in other words, addresses you. Posters are always complaining that people don't come back on. I'm not overly bothered in that respect because I've said my bit.

Please could you point me to thegenuine positive parts?
If you missed the genuine positive part, I will try to explain better, (and bore half the readership!). I was born and brought up in London in the 60s and 70s, and it was a very different city then. I moved away in the 80, 90s, and noughties to Devon and Brittany. When I returned in 2009 I was indeed shocked at the changes, but - and this is the genuine positive I explained- , I adapted to my new environment starting with reflecting on how I viewed all the lovely children in my school. I have never made a racist comment in my life, but I had to adjust to a new normal around me, just as my eyes had to adjust to all the new London skyscrapers which at first I didn’t like, but later did not even notice and grew to appreciate.

Kandinsky I actually live in East London, which has a very high migrant population. Nearly all my neighbours originate from different parts of the world and I have never felt uncomfortable living here.

Many of the people who have negative views about immigration have never actually lived in a multicultural environment.

I may be missing something somewhere too like you NotSpaghetti 😁 it’s easily done on a fast paced thread but I was pointing out that Jews and Muslims have both dogs and cats as pets.

Our next door but one Muslim family have two dogs, very cute little things like balls of ginger fur with foxy faces.

I have never met a Muslim who kept a dog. I'm not saying that none do - just confused about the demographics of the people in the hotel with screaming children and dog mess if they are largely Muslim men.

I'm missing something somewhere I think.

Perhaps growstuff you can point out any racist posts on here and you could even allow the moderators to decide if they are, as I haven’t seen any at all.

My point is whitewavemark2 that Muslims keep dogs, or very many of them do, yet posters were expressing surprise and disbelief about it.

woodenspoon

People on here who ignore legitimate concerns about immigration are the type of people who will hear nothing bad about immigrants. Only yesterday an immigrant from Yemen now living in Plymouth was in court charged with having porn on his phone, he was let off and is now back in Plymouth wanting to bring his family over here. Of course he does. He is just one example. But on here he’d be seen as misguided, worthy of more chances. As if we don’t have enough already with the grooming gangs who’ve more chance of being deported than I have of winning the lottery.

These people in denial do not understand or want to understand the sheer frustration, anger at what is being done to this country. There is no worthwhile contribution. Its all take take take.

Regarding the hotels mentioned yesterday. The latest one that was in the news online yesterday in most mainstream papers was identified as The Copthorne at Gatwick. One poster called it run down and tacky. Another said she’d stayed in it in years gone by and it was fine. But that’s the hotel.

Also, the other one mentioned was in national and local newspapers where comments from local residents included the mention of dogs. Read it for yourselves for those who robustly refuse to believe. It’s all online.

Theres nothing racist, that good old word, about being angry about these migrants shacked up in hotels with board, lodgings, mobile phones, NHS and dentistry thrown in without ever having paid a penny into the system. Of course they want to bring their families over. Why wouldn’t they?

Meanwhile, British families are struggling, young British single mums with several kids are housed in one room bed sits (itv news) away from friends and family, servicemen are on the streets. I’m sure the pensioners who’ve had their winter fuel payments removed plus all those struggling are only too pleased to suffer so migrants can be holed up in hotels.

Racist. What a joke.

Excellent post, well said 👏👏👏👏👏👏

Claremont

Go back to the title- no clairification about legal or 'illegal' migration at all- just migration in general. And we need migrants, desperately, with population declining, and so many of our young (and older people) unable or unwilling, to work, or do the jobs migrants do, either because they do not have the necessary qualifications, or don't like those poorly paid jobs with long hours in difficult, often back breaking conditions.

Most migrants want to settle, integrate, work and contribute, and are prepared to work very hard, often in poor conditions. And integration does not mean assimilation.

That's really why we need to get our act together!!
There is a difference, as you have just pointed out, Claremont.

So you agree with the headline - we need to get our act together, speed up the processes to enable those asylum seekers we may need here to work and deport those less desirable?

People on here who ignore legitimate concerns about immigration are the type of people who will hear nothing bad about immigrants. Only yesterday an immigrant from Yemen now living in Plymouth was in court charged with having porn on his phone, he was let off and is now back in Plymouth wanting to bring his family over here. Of course he does. He is just one example. But on here he’d be seen as misguided, worthy of more chances. As if we don’t have enough already with the grooming gangs who’ve more chance of being deported than I have of winning the lottery.

These people in denial do not understand or want to understand the sheer frustration, anger at what is being done to this country. There is no worthwhile contribution. Its all take take take.

Regarding the hotels mentioned yesterday. The latest one that was in the news online yesterday in most mainstream papers was identified as The Copthorne at Gatwick. One poster called it run down and tacky. Another said she’d stayed in it in years gone by and it was fine. But that’s the hotel.

Also, the other one mentioned was in national and local newspapers where comments from local residents included the mention of dogs. Read it for yourselves for those who robustly refuse to believe. It’s all online.

Theres nothing racist, that good old word, about being angry about these migrants shacked up in hotels with board, lodgings, mobile phones, NHS and dentistry thrown in without ever having paid a penny into the system. Of course they want to bring their families over. Why wouldn’t they?

Meanwhile, British families are struggling, young British single mums with several kids are housed in one room bed sits (itv news) away from friends and family, servicemen are on the streets. I’m sure the pensioners who’ve had their winter fuel payments removed plus all those struggling are only too pleased to suffer so migrants can be holed up in hotels.

Racist. What a joke.

escaped

growstuff

Good post Eloethan. I agree with you - some of the anti-immigrant posts are racist.

You would say that. Fine. I would say that only very few comments are. Exactly what I meant, and I know all about the history of East London too from when my Jewish ancestors were stockbrokers.

But I notice you didn't pick up onanyzny of the more genuine positive parts of those posts! It works both ways.

PS. Am I supposed to make a comment on every post on GN?

Please could you point me to the genuine positive parts?

escaped

growstuff

Good post Eloethan. I agree with you - some of the anti-immigrant posts are racist.

You would say that. Fine. I would say that only very few comments are. Exactly what I meant, and I know all about the history of East London too from when my Jewish ancestors were stockbrokers.

But I notice you didn't pick up onanyzny of the more genuine positive parts of those posts! It works both ways.

Why would I say that? Maybe because it's true? Because you perceive that I'm a "leftie"? (If so, I'll wear the "leftie" badge with pride, albeit somewhat fraudulently. Some anti-immigrant posts most certainly are racist (please note that word some).

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Interesting about dogs - I believe it is the same for Judaism.

Those two religions are so closely intertwined.

I know I keep making this point, but it never seems to sink in, Jews aren’t all religious, they may be agnostic or atheist.
Muslims aren’t all religious either ( hence Rotherham and other sex grooming gangs) and many only pay the most basic lip service.I believe this is the same for those who call themselves Christian.
Therefore many keep dogs.

Um yes I’m not sure of your point.

This was just a comment about dogs snd Middle Eastern religions.

I do know that there are non-believers in every country in earth.

I am one.

Go back to the title- no clairification about legal or 'illegal' migration at all- just migration in general. And we need migrants, desperately, with population declining, and so many of our young (and older people) unable or unwilling, to work, or do the jobs migrants do, either because they do not have the necessary qualifications, or don't like those poorly paid jobs with long hours in difficult, often back breaking conditions.

Most migrants want to settle, integrate, work and contribute, and are prepared to work very hard, often in poor conditions. And integration does not mean assimilation.

And yet this has always happened. The Celts were not happy about the arrival of the Romans, and the Anglo-Saxons (themselves Dutch/German in today's terms) were not happy about the arrival of the Normans. Remember the DaneLaw- I lived right on the border, and driving around you would recognise place names which belonged to both sides. And yes, they were the same 'colour' but their religion, customs, culture were vastly different. Do you remember the racism shown to Irish and Italians in the 50s. And the Windrush people (same arrival year as my DH's parents), and on and on.

growstuff

Good post Eloethan. I agree with you - some of the anti-immigrant posts are racist.

But most aren't.

And calling the discussion anti-immigrant is just plain wrong.

It's not anti-immigrant, most of us welcome legal immigrants. The problem is that Governments (not just ours) are overwhelmed with how to deal with the massive problem of people arriving illegally and then claiming asylum.

escaped

growstuff

Good post Eloethan. I agree with you - some of the anti-immigrant posts are racist.

You would say that. Fine. I would say that only very few comments are. Exactly what I meant, and I know all about the history of East London too from when my Jewish ancestors were stockbrokers.

But I notice you didn't pick up onanyzny of the more genuine positive parts of those posts! It works both ways.

And I know quite a bit about East London too, having grown up there.
It’s the pace of immigration and the huge numbers that have changed areas out of all recognition that upsets locals.

Whitewavemark2

Interesting about dogs - I believe it is the same for Judaism.

Those two religions are so closely intertwined.

I know I keep making this point, but it never seems to sink in, Jews aren’t all religious, they may be agnostic or atheist.
Muslims aren’t all religious either ( hence Rotherham and other sex grooming gangs) and many only pay the most basic lip service.I believe this is the same for those who call themselves Christian.
Therefore many keep dogs.