No carol singing in school....

Luckygirl3

Nanny27

I taught in secondary schools for many years and don't recall any type of singing really. I'm not sure when people imagine it would happen. Music lessons? No, students are generally rugged into headphones. Assembly? These are long gone in most schools, reduced to a few notices from head of year at best.

Your post simply makes my heart sink into my boots.

How can anyone possibly approve of schools being such cultural deserts?

Two of my GC are at a private secondary school and the singing and musical opportunities are alive and well and a total joy for all. Why should people have to pay for this ...... I was going to say privilege .... but it is not a privilege, it is part of our birthright.

When did we degenerate into this mess?

Yes, it makes me want to weep.

Religions are a fact of human life. Not acknowledging or teaching them is wrong, as would be ignoring history and other subjects.

The pity is that now, only one choice can be made from Humanities at GCSE level, either History, Geography or Comparative Religions. The problem is trying to fit all into the curriculum.

Gizzy48 👏💙💖

Our local catholic and Church of England based faith primary schools are sought after and supported by our Muslim community. They support the celebration of Christian festivals, schools support Muslim, Hindu and other important festivals.

My children went to non denominational primary, CofE high school. At high school RE GCSEs was mandatory. Comparative religions taught.

I recognise Claremont’s insistence that teaching faith, acknowledging various key festivals is wrong. I do t agree. My daughters learned so much about other faiths. Two of my grandchildren go to a catholic primary school. They’re also learning about all faiths and none. And they have a Nativuty each December, a wonderful joyous occasion

At my grandson's Carol service they sang the same French carols that I sang 60 years ago (Quittez Pasteurs and Noelle Nouvelle) they also sang a couple of German ones as they learn German as well. I was disappointed to find that they sang Adeste Fidelis in English but I suppose you can't have everything.

I sat in on one of their Religion and Philosophy classes where the theme was Right and Wrong and how we know which is which. They talked about in relation to other religions as well and one of te Indian boys went into great depth about it.

The last primary school I taught at, as music specialist, was about 10% Muslim. The attitudes of the Muslim children, or rather, the parents, ranged from total participation in anything musical going, through not singing in anything that had even religious undertones in the words, to not even being allowed to even attend music lessons.

A few of my nicest little singers used to have to absent themselves from the annual Christmas concert, usually after the parents had vetted the words, but to my joy in year 6, one of my best singers, from a Bangladeshi family, told me, “My mum says it’s all right for me to sing those words, but I mustn’t mean them.”

My response? “That’s great, A****, tell her thank you and say that I don’t mean them either.”

Luckygirl3

Nanny27

I taught in secondary schools for many years and don't recall any type of singing really. I'm not sure when people imagine it would happen. Music lessons? No, students are generally rugged into headphones. Assembly? These are long gone in most schools, reduced to a few notices from head of year at best.

Your post simply makes my heart sink into my boots.

How can anyone possibly approve of schools being such cultural deserts?

Two of my GC are at a private secondary school and the singing and musical opportunities are alive and well and a total joy for all. Why should people have to pay for this ...... I was going to say privilege .... but it is not a privilege, it is part of our birthright.

When did we degenerate into this mess?

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👌

Nanny27

I taught in secondary schools for many years and don't recall any type of singing really. I'm not sure when people imagine it would happen. Music lessons? No, students are generally rugged into headphones. Assembly? These are long gone in most schools, reduced to a few notices from head of year at best.

Your post simply makes my heart sink into my boots.

How can anyone possibly approve of schools being such cultural deserts?

Two of my GC are at a private secondary school and the singing and musical opportunities are alive and well and a total joy for all. Why should people have to pay for this ...... I was going to say privilege .... but it is not a privilege, it is part of our birthright.

When did we degenerate into this mess?

Allira

Claremont

Yes, agreed, Church services is where they belong, with believers, as their choice. Although our local Vicar was always very clear at Midnight Service, with the 'so lovely to see so many of you here tonight- would be even nicer to see some of you sometimes on a Sunday'.

Not all schools are secular in the UK.

Should they be, do you think?

Yes, absolutely.

I taught in secondary schools for many years and don't recall any type of singing really. I'm not sure when people imagine it would happen. Music lessons? No, students are generally rugged into headphones. Assembly? These are long gone in most schools, reduced to a few notices from head of year at best.

Absolutely witzend

gagsy

I am not a Christian but am proud to live in a Christian country and am sad that hymns are no longer sung in schools. So many hymns have words that are fine for any religion to sing. I feel our culture is very important.

I strongly agree 😃
In fact I love to hear Carols they are beautiful.

I am not a Christian but am proud to live in a Christian country and am sad that hymns are no longer sung in schools. So many hymns have words that are fine for any religion to sing. I feel our culture is very important.

Claremont

Yes, agreed, Church services is where they belong, with believers, as their choice. Although our local Vicar was always very clear at Midnight Service, with the 'so lovely to see so many of you here tonight- would be even nicer to see some of you sometimes on a Sunday'.

Not all schools are secular in the UK.

Should they be, do you think?

Daughter’s at secondary and they have a Christmas Carol evening with the school choir - it’s lovely. I work at primary and we go down to the local church for a Christmas service the last week of term.

I sing in three choirs. My love of singing was nurtured in school, where it played an important part. It was the same in the last school I taught in. My grandchildren’s schools still had nativity plays, with songs, and Carol services.
But if singing is disappearing it is no wonder we can’t get young people to join our choirs. Such a loss.
Singing is so good for the body, mind and soul. It encourages creativity, love of beauty, co-ordination, working together, a sense of community- and much more.

Yes, agreed, Church services is where they belong, with believers, as their choice. Although our local Vicar was always very clear at Midnight Service, with the 'so lovely to see so many of you here tonight- would be even nicer to see some of you sometimes on a Sunday'.

Sago

We’re going to have to get used to it.

This is wokery at its best.

Well not really, is it? Some schools just don't do singing of any sort any more. They can always go to church if carols are what they want.

This is a bit off-piste but has brought to mind last December when I landed in Australia just in time to hear my 7 year old grandson's class singing "Santa Koala" to the tune of Waltzing Matilda. What a welcome 😍

So, a non-denominational school should, in theory, have no religious affiliation, but you’ll still get the Tommy Robinsons squealing if a school was to do anything to recognise any other religion ( but specifically Islam). Working in schools for many years, I have yet to encounter any ‘other religion’ being offended by celebrations of Christian festivals. Quite the reverse, in fact.
My son teaches music, and never includes singing in his lessons, though his school has plenty of opportunities for those who want to sing. When I get on my hobby horse about young people not doing ‘proper singing’, so miss out on singing things like Beethoven 9 or Mahler’s Symphony of a Thousand, his answer is that they’ll just sing something else. I find it so sad, when I think of the joy I’ve had singing all the magnificent big choral works.
I’m quite nostalgic now.

Pretty standard practice in High School these days! Don't want to offend anyone...lol sad really.. I know I was a high school reacher. Stopped in our school in 90's

I don't think it's actual wokery per se, (whatever that may be), as mentioned by a few on here. I do think, however, there needs to be a stop to all this over sensitivity to whatever offends anyone, especially where the Arts are concerned.
Is it just the music, or should we just ignore the Christmas works of Rembrandt, Botticelli and Raphael too? Or the Christmas works of Charles Dicken, Robert Louis Stevenson etc.?
Christmas carols are everywhere, with modern versions in Harry Potter and Home Alone which explore themes entered around peace, forgiveness and goodwill to ALL men. If people are exposed to Christmas carols, so what! Live and let live, fgs.

It’s a great pity that ‘wokery’ is instantly seized on in response to this.
I love carols and religious music, the Messiah at Manchester Bridgewater a Christmas tradition here. Mr i’s funeral was at our village Church, hymns were sung . We live in an increasingly secular society. Few of the funerals or weddings I attend have any religion included

That’s life folks. Muslims generally consider themselves practicing whereas fewer people identify as Christian. In my town, the black African immigrants and asylum seekers keep the Evangelical Church buzzing

Claremont

Chardy

I taught secondary for decades in different schools, and honestly I don't ever remember singing carols ever

Same here. Secondary ad 6th Form in very mixed schoolsin a region that pioneeered comprehensive education.

So I think it depends very much on the kind of school you went to, or taught at. My GCs and nephews and nieces all go to very 'posh' schools and all sang carols at Christmas, but not in the 6th Form.

I so love singing, but why does it have to be carols. There is excellent and rousing, moving music, classical or not, from the UK and all over the world, that we can enjoy and share, irrespective of faith or not. As a Humanist, I strongly believe that faith is a personal matter, which those who want to can enjoy freely with each other- but should not be imposed on to others, music included. I left 2 choirs because I felt uncomfotable with the very religious lyrics.

Whether you’re at all religious or not, many carols are set to beautiful music. I’m sure many people who aren’t by any means devout churchgoers, still enjoy them.,

escaped

petra what a fantastic experience!

It was terrifying 😱 My music teacher had warned me that the second I opened my mouth I’m going to freeze, but don’t look at anything or anyone just look above everyone’s head and sing.

There are always some extremist people who object to other peoples religion just as there are extremist Christians but the vast majority of people of other religions are quite happy to sing carols and celebrate Christmas. In fact any excuse for a celebration will do.