What do the words racist, and also Islamophobia, mean to you?

Thank you for the replies.

It’s certainly not an irrational fear but all peaceful Muslims in the UK will have extremists to thank for any public worries that come their way.Sad but true.

Yes of course they were.
Clamping down on humour is one of the first signs of tyranny.

I've said this before on another thread, like other world religion with over a billion followers, of course Muslims are not a homogeneous mass, they, like Christians will encompass the full spectrum of fundamentalists, the devout and the peaceful, to those who would describe themselves loosely as followers, but really only pay lip service and those who are atheist in their complete non belief. The worry, as always, are the fundamentalists. When some deranged cleric, Torquemada planted his warped ideas with Queen Isabella of Spain centuries ago, out of that was born a reign of terror, known as the Spanish Inquisition one of the finest examples of mass intolerance not only throughout Catholic Europe but imported to the New World. How many people subscribed to all that torture and martyrdom of hundreds of thousands of innocent people? we could never know but I imagine the populations of the time were held in thrall by absolute fear and terror of being a transgressor themselves and being dragged before one of the many courts set up to try heretics. Moving on to where we are today, the people who have suffered most from the fundamentalist branch of Islam are Muslims themselves, and I have no doubt that the majority have no time for it, but they are in situations where they endanger themselves by sticking their heads above the parapet. Going back a couple of years when ISIS fundamentalists were steamrolling across parts of the Middle East and set up their de facto headquarters in the city of Raqqa, like the Inquisition all those centuries ago, they swept away the easy going, cafe society, as it was from what I read, to replace that with some quasi extreme version of their religion, like the Christian Inquisitors centuries ago whose firebrand version of what they believed and put into practice would have been completely contrary to the teachings of Christ, most notably tolerance. I similarly I imagine there would be many Islamic clerics who would and will be distraught at how their religion was being skewed through a propaganda that was very much at odds with the teachings of
the main tenets of their religion. Theocracies do seem some of the worst of totalitarian societies imo.

Once again, I'm going to say it, given that extreme Islamists have mounted such precise terror campaigns of seismic proportions, far greater than anything the IRA inflicted on us, with thousands of casualties then I don't think such a fear of that occurring again is irrational. Sometimes we get an inkling by way of the terror threat has been upped to critical, but from what I can remember, we the public, only knew about them in the aftermath.

For what it's worth, my own belief is, given where we are these days, are to not go out of our way to inflame tensions. For example, I thought the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, insulting and puerile and quite possibly they shouldn't have been allowed to be published. I know that flies in the face of free speech, and that really should be sacrosanct, but with free speech should come a responsibility not to overtly inflame. Were those ridiculous and insulting etchings ever worth the outcome?

Racist, anyone in this country who objects to the savage funding cuts that affects their lives and environment, objects to more people coming here, living in hotels and claiming benefits and draining the coffers.. Colour or faith doesn't come into it.
Islamaohobia, a fear of extreme sects of the Muslim faith.
People are made welcome here legally, keep your faith, work hard and learn the language and no problems.
Think some people just want an argument about it all and be decisive. Carry on.

What do the words racist, and also Islamophobia, mean to you?

Thread #9845 on the N&P board.

Well of course it is very wide, that's why the police get it wrong so frequently.

Oh! and claiming ignorance cuts no ice.

Have a look at the CPS guidelines to the police in how to determine whether a hate crime has been committed, either spoken, written or physical.

It is very wide, even to the extent of denying it exists.

Oreo

Exactly TerriBull you put it very well. Islamaphobia where it exists is not an irrational fear.
It’s unfortunate for Muslims here in the UK that their religion has been hijacked in such a shocking way.Mosques could have done more and showed radical imams the door.For a long time they were preaching hate in private inside the mosques as visiting speakers.
Muslim parents should do all possible in the way of checking if their teenagers and AC could be in danger of being radicalised, things such as excessive religious views and a change in character.
I’m sorry for any Muslims in the UK who experience bad behaviour from anyone purely because they are Muslim but the many attacks and murders from extremists has engendered that sort of feeling.Am sure they must realise that.

It most certainly is an irrational fear. The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists. Islamophobia labels all who belong the group as a result of behaviour by a handful.

Doodledog

My understanding is that the Quran is in some ways inseparable from Muslim beliefs, inasmuch as it is believed to be quite literally the word of Allah. But much like most (all?) religions it is not followed in the same way by all adherents. There are differences in interpretation, different denominations, sects, whatever you want to call them.

So someone who fears Muslims, unless they have a particular fear of, say, Sunnis as opposed to Sufis, is phobic about Islam. It is splitting hairs though - we all know what we mean. Someone who is scared of all Muslims because some have been responsible for atrocities is unlikely to have a close knowledge of the nuances between different groups across the world, or even within one town.

Correct.

I've had this discussion with my son-in-law, who is ethnically Arab and was born to parents who are believing Muslims. He rejected any faith when he was in his late teens, much to his parents' disappointment. My sil no longer thinks of himself as Muslim, but does think of himself as culturally Arab. That's not so different from my daughter, who doesn't have any faith either, but thinks of herself as culturally North European.

Muslims and (followers of) Islam are the same people. If you have some fear of Islam, you will fear the people who follow the religion. As has been pointed out, there are various interpretations of Islam, but people who are Islamophobic don't understand the nuances and discriminate against all followers.

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fancythat

Doodledog - 2nd paragraph.

I think most people know there are different sects by now.
You have switched it[did you do it upthread as well] to fear of muslims instead of fear of Islam.

The word is Islamophobia. Not anything else.

I don’t know why, but you seem to be trying to catch me out. I have no agenda, so it’s a bit pointless. I think that Islamophobia is fear of Muslims, usually based on (at best) an incomplete understanding of Islam.

Not sure there is much new I can say on the subject.
I am a bit clearer in my head now about the words.

Thank you to the few who did contribute.

Doodledog - 2nd paragraph.

I think most people know there are different sects by now.
You have switched it[did you do it upthread as well] to fear of muslims instead of fear of Islam.

The word is Islamophobia. Not anything else.

to petra

No I havent to the first sentance.

Islamophobia is supposed to be the fear of Islam.

I feel like I am going to write exactly the same things I have already written on this thread already, so no point me rewriting them!

My understanding is that the Quran is in some ways inseparable from Muslim beliefs, inasmuch as it is believed to be quite literally the word of Allah. But much like most (all?) religions it is not followed in the same way by all adherents. There are differences in interpretation, different denominations, sects, whatever you want to call them.

So someone who fears Muslims, unless they have a particular fear of, say, Sunnis as opposed to Sufis, is phobic about Islam. It is splitting hairs though - we all know what we mean. Someone who is scared of all Muslims because some have been responsible for atrocities is unlikely to have a close knowledge of the nuances between different groups across the world, or even within one town.

Fancythat
Call me psychic but I don’t think you’ve met/ mixed with many ( if any ) Muslims.
If you had you would not have said they are not the religion itself. They are not the Quran
The Quran is inseparable from the very identity and beliefs of a Muslim.

Exactly TerriBull you put it very well. Islamaphobia where it exists is not an irrational fear.
It’s unfortunate for Muslims here in the UK that their religion has been hijacked in such a shocking way.Mosques could have done more and showed radical imams the door.For a long time they were preaching hate in private inside the mosques as visiting speakers.
Muslim parents should do all possible in the way of checking if their teenagers and AC could be in danger of being radicalised, things such as excessive religious views and a change in character.
I’m sorry for any Muslims in the UK who experience bad behaviour from anyone purely because they are Muslim but the many attacks and murders from extremists has engendered that sort of feeling.Am sure they must realise that.

Yes, that's what I meant. Islamophobia is a fear of Islam, and therefore Muslims,

I dont agree with that.

Islamophobia is a fear of the religion of Islam it seems.

Muslims are not the religion itself.
They are not the Koran.

It's not irrational, when extremists who interpret their religion in such a way their beliefs spur them on to commit mass murder, it might well be a warped version of those beliefs, it might well be condemned by the mainstream, nevertheless it has cropped up in the most unlikely places when people least expect it. Such as attending a rock concert at the Bataclan in Paris or The Ariana Grande concert at the Manchester Arena. The unlikely could happen anywhere. If it were say an offshoot of the Baptists, just as an example, who were carrying out a sustained bombing campaign then I imagine something called Baptistsaphobia would emerge.

Bellanonna

*Phobia (whether of Islam, Judaism or whatever) is fear of people based on an interpretation of their beliefs

It’s actually just a fear, usually irrational. Arachnophobia for example. But in the case of a fear or hatred such as in islamaphobia this must mean against the belief and not the person. To fear or hate a Muslim would be Muslimphobia I imagine.

And yes of course it’s wrong.

Yes, that's what I meant. Islamophobia is a fear of Islam, and therefore Muslims, based in an interpretation of their religion. Sometimes that interpretation leads to people fearing things that are most unlikely to happen, or are simply inaccurate. The same can apply to any religion, in the same way as, as in your example, people like me fear spiders, even though the ones I am likely to meet are harmless and also afraid of me.

Though that probably is as good a defintion as any.

Some defintions include a feeling of superiority.
No mention of that on there.