Is this ethical?

Sago £150 that is awful, if she does get someone attendance allowance at the lower rate she will be taking the whole month allowance . It’s not unethical it’s immoral😡

Iam64

butterandjam, the people I’m talking about did not have the money to pay a trusted helper. They approached a charlatan to help them exploit the benefit system

You said she was advertising in an FB page. How do you know who responded, what their financial situation is, that they are exploiting the system, or that she is a charlatan/ untrustworthy?

FYI some benefits are not means tested . Claiming n-m-t benefit is not necessarily an indication of poverty. Those entitled to claim are not "exploiting the system".

You might bear in mind that there are circumstances in which A) many people become entitled to benefits/state help as their right, AFTER they have worked and contributed for many years .

We have a lady in our local library that does this free of charge, some forms can be quite daunting.

Nanato3

It's not ethical. She's taking advantage of people.

How on earth do you arrive at that conclusion? Is a hairdresser taking advantage of someone who can't (or doesn't want to) cut her own hair, or a grocer taking advantage of someone who needs vegetables but doesn't like gardening and growing their own?

How is this different? If someone has training in and understanding of the forms, why shouldn't they offer a service that people can take or leave?

As I said upthread, the fact that advice should be freely available to all who need it is a separate issue. People can't have both low taxation and high spending on public services.

It's not ethical. She's taking advantage of people.

vegansrock

I filled in the Power of Attorney forms online and paid something like £168, a solicitor wanted to charge over £1k - I think that’s unethical.

Yes, I agree. What is more you have to give the solicitor all the information anyway so you are just about paying that thousand pounds for typing it.

I filled in the Power of Attorney forms online and paid something like £168, a solicitor wanted to charge over £1k - I think that’s unethical.

Having filled in pip forms for a physically very fragile relative for the past 23 years (I'm their 'appointee') I can tell you it's a huge amount of work collecting all the medical evidence and matching it up to the criteria on the huge form and finding a way to describe the condition. I'd happily pay £300 if it was successful. I find it so stressful and exhausting.

If you can read and write,the attendance allowance form is 100% straight forward.

these forms are daunting but there is online help. Otherwise i think i would be inclined to go to something like CAB which you can trust

You can put your information into Chat GPT for free and get the wording for your form without paying. I wouldn't ever pay for somebody to fill in a form for me and I think it is a shame that anyone thinks they need to. However, I do know people who would struggle to fill a form in but I would always advise them to get charity help. Who knows what experience this woman has.

Benefit Officers will do this free . I suppose if someone offers a service and charges for it that's OK. You would expect to pay the gardener or the cleaner.

Doodledog a service at a fixed upfront price and customers are willing to pay someone else to complete the forms for them, I don’t think it is more or less ethical to pay a freelancer than to wait for an appointment with a salaried welfare officer, particularly as such appointments are thin on the ground.

This.

Many of us pay for things we could diy. Many of us diy most tasks. I see no difference to paying or me properly filling in the forms, fitting a new kitchen or diy, yard care, cleaners. Choices, how to spend.

Going back quite a few years I was foolish enough to help a neighbour with her DLA form. It was not difficult to fill out but long winded and repetetive. Her concentration was limited so it took up 2 entire afternoons of my time. Of course I did it free but I would never again do so for anyone. I no longer have expertise in benefit claims.

I lived to regret my kindness because she began to make all kinds of requests for help with shopping, phone calls etc. I felt like an unpad PA. Thats why I now inform people who ask for cheeky favours that I will think about it and "give them a price".

I also make it extremely difficult for people to get in touch with me.

If people are trying to exploit the benefit system it is they who are behaving unethically. If the advisors claim to be qualified but are not, then that is unethical, as would be implying that the only way to get the information would be to pay for it. But if someone is offering a service at a fixed upfront price and customers are willing to pay someone else to complete the forms for them, I don’t think it is more or less ethical to pay a freelancer than to wait for an appointment with a salaried welfare officer, particularly as such appointments are thin on the ground.

keepcalmandcavachon

My goodness £150 plus access to all of your private and financial information!

The attendance allowance form asks for no financial information except the bank account you would like the money paid into if successful.

petra

Most people who tell the truth and the whole truth will fail the test ( because that’s what it is)
It’s not just people on line but people who work in benefits help people to avoid failing.

Then my husband (and myself who completed the form for him) are in the minority.

Perhaps if one tells the truth and isn’t successful then the attendance needs are not sufficient to be eligible?

MollyNew

I had to fill in an attendance allowance form for my dad a couple of years ago. Yes, it was a long winded form but I didn't think it was designed to catch people out. If you're claiming benefits, you need to show why you need it. Once we had all dad's financial information to hand - bank statements etc, it was easier to do than some friends and family had said it would be.

Before I retired, I used to help people to complete benefits forms as part of my job. They are long forms and look daunting but often if you fill in one section, you can skip others. They are time consuming so I always advise people to take their time and go section by section.

As for the woman on Facebook, I think £150 to £300 is quite exploitative.

I disagree about the form not being designed to catch you out because certain parts certainly are imo. I refer to the parts where the same question is asked twice but in different ways and I can think of no reason for this but to see if you answer each question in the same way.

My husband was very awarded attendance allowance and he’d probably had it a lot sooner had I been able to summon the will to tackle the form in anything other than a couple of pages at a time. I have no problem normally with forms but many of the kind of questions which asked on the AA firm are not straightforward. Like the ‘how many times a day does the person need help’ for a particular activity.

I don’t think there’s anything unethical in offering a chargeable service to help complete the form. The fact that free help is generally available to most people is just ‘caveat emptor’.

butterandjam, the people I’m talking about did not have the money to pay a trusted helper. They approached a charlatan to help them exploit the benefit system

Sago

I don’t think you understand, she is charging for this.
Apparently it is £150 up front and £150 if the claim is successful.

Plenty of people are willing to pay for convenience and a trusted helper. Why not, if they can afford it?

Jackiest

Maybe the unethical bit is that the forms are too complicated for the average person claiming to fill in.

I've seen solicitors advrrtising help with AA, and I would seek professional help if a family member needed, and appeared to be eligible for Continuing Health Care.

If this person is local you may be able to get an idea of what people felt about using them. You could find out what qualification they have too.

Peaseblossom

£300 reasonable?!!!!

No!

£300 reasonable?!!!!

Doodledog ... the unethical aspect is that this information is available free.

It is like those dreadful conning companies that charge people to get their passport or GHIC. They ask the same questions as the passport office, so the customer gains nothing at all but are lighter in the pocket.

I’ve met many people who offer this service in areas of high deprivation, they take money upfront and a percentage when the claim succeeds. These were not ethical individuals. Their clients were often vulnerable in various ways.

I agree, the forms seem designed to stop claims. A friend aged 78, sole carer for his wife, who was 80, blind, immobile, dementing, diabetic etc. he was refused any financial or practical support. Mr I was retired but had the knowledge from his working life. He helped our friend appeal, all necessary benefits were granted
Volunteers or paid welfare workers much less likely to be charlatans