Oops! The Prince formerly known as Duke drops another clanger!

Call me an innocent abroad but - how is a starting age of 21 to be regulated or enforced? The legal age for consent is 16. Vote at 18, possibly 16 in the near future. Join the military at 16, police cadet at similar ages.

Are you proposing an age at which boys or men can pay for sex?

You really have no understanding of the issues being discussed here ronib, The Prince Andrew Epstein Maxwell involvement of organised sexual exploitation of girls and vulnerable young women, alongside the so called grooming gang inquiry has caused society to reflect on how we prevent and prptect.

What is it about some men that they have “needs” that trump those of women

LemonJam I have been clear. A regulated sex industry where the starting age is 21 would obviously protect teenagers. Is that so hard to understand?

Other problems facing our society are not being addressed at all.

My post has crossed over with yours Ronib.

Thank you for explaining; " If there is a properly regulated sex industry with proper protections for sex workers, and legislation to prevent under 21 year olds being employed plus heavy penalties for any breaches, that has to be an improvement on what we have now. It’s not going to stop the very youngest children from abuse but it would go some way towards reducing teenage involvement.

You accept regulation of the adult sex industry would not stop children from child sex offenders. However in what way would it "go some way towards reducing teenage involvement" I still do not understand entirely however. I think you mean protect teenagers, i.e. teenagers between 18-21, by reducing their involvement with the adult sex industry?

Your'e welcome Iam64.

Ronib alleges it is we guys "do seem a bit adrift" and she is going to write to her MP "as a start " to promote regulation of the adult sex industry e.g. as in the Netherlands. She also is free to write to Jess Philips if she feels that will help.

Ronibs point specifically is that such regulation will offer more protection to children like Virginia Giuffre- it is her conflation of the 2 very different topics that we are seeking to understand as this thread is not about the adult sex industry:
ronib Fri 24-Oct-25 19:23:41
"The point is that with regulation, there would be much more protection for girls like Victoria Giuffre and also for the punters. Which may of course outrage some of you… but perhaps someone needs to look into it and report back to the government"

I merely seek to understand Ronib. So far she chooses to not explain why regulating an ADULT commercial sex industry would offer "much more protection for GIRLS like Virginia Giuffre". In what way?? That in what ways specifically does Ronib believe her proposal for such regulation will protect vulnerable girls who are sex trafficked at a young age and abused? I'm interested hence I asked the question.

It is of course entirely up to Ronib whether she wishes to engage and explain her reasons for believing that regulation of the adult commercial sex industry, where consenting adults exchange sexual services for money, will protect vulnerable children from abuse, coercion and sex trafficking. Men doing this are not "punters" they are "child sex offenders".

Iam64 The government, social workers, teachers, the police and parents are responsible for protecting children?
It’s obvious that there are massive failures. Jess Phillips is a minister in charge of child abuse so why not contact her department?
If there is a properly regulated sex industry with proper protections for sex workers, and legislation to prevent under 21 year olds being employed plus heavy penalties for any breaches, that has to be an improvement on what we have now. It’s not going to stop the very youngest children from abuse but it would go some way towards reducing teenage involvement.
Since this thread has to be about bashing Prince Andrew at all costs, why not start a new thread? I wouldn’t want your fun to stop!

Leminandjam - thanks for your summary

ronib

LemonJam maybe start a new thread? Jess Phillips is the person to contact on child abuse.

Perhaps you could respond to lemonandjam’s question as to how regulating paid sex between adults will protect children.

Why on earth do you suggest lemonandjam contact Jess Phillips

LemonJam maybe start a new thread? Jess Phillips is the person to contact on child abuse.

Do you really think she committed suicide ? Or was it something more sinister? Either way she has exposed these creepy horrible people and I am grateful to her for that. Andrew is obviously a class A creep and a liar to boot and just how much he was complicit remains to be seen. I feel there is more to come.

ronib Fri 24-Oct-25 19:28:43
"You do seem a bit adrift on this topic guys …. It’s not just The Netherlands with a regulated sex industry….. it needs to happen here too"

The exchange of sexual services for money is not illegal for consenting ADULTS in the UK. I accept you would like the sex industry ( ie commercial activity involving consenting adults)~ to be regulated as in other countries and seek to persuade others of the benefits thereof but that is not the topic of this post. This post is about the Metropolitan Police probe into the allegation that Price Andrew sought to dig up some dirt and smear Virginia Giuffre's reputation.

You earlier posted on this thread that Virginia spent 6 months living with Ron Eppinger, who you said was heavily into prostitution, before she met Epstein etc. You indicated you had a number of questions about her family. At 14.58 on 22 October I responded to you in detail.

Virginia Giuffre was still a child of 17 when her photograph was taken with Prince Andrew. She was introduced to Andrew by Maxwell and Epstein and claims she was coerced into having sex with him. Maxwell is a convicted child sex offender who was found guilty of child sex trafficking and other offences in connection with Epstein. Epstein was a child sex offender. Epstein was arrested in 2005 after he was accused of paying a 14 year old girl for sex. Prince Andrew was friends with Epstein and Maxwell and continued his friendship with Epstein for some years after 2005. Epstein was charged with sex trafficking in 2019 but committed suicide before trial.

Virginia had a troubled background and was abused from an early age. She lived in various foster homes and ran away from home when she turned and lived on the streets etc all detailed in my earlier post. She was then reunited with her father, who worked at Mar-a Lago, owned by Trump and he helped her get a job there, but she still was not yet an adult. There she met Epstein and Maxwell. Years later Virgina successfully sued Maxwell for defamation.

Children of 7 are not responsible for the actions of adults who abuse them. Vulnerable children of 14 on the streets are not prostitutes as they are children and have not reached the age of consent. Men who have sex with children are abusers not availing themselves of the services of a prostitute. Commercial sexual activity such as prostitution by legal definition must involve consenting adults.

Put very simply children are not and never can be prostitutes b legal definition. Therefore it would be helpful if you could explain to many of us how your ambition to regulate the commercial ADULT sex industry will stop child sex offenders, and child sex trafficking.

You really want me to explain to a 3 year old? Seriously? Please consider how to protect sex workers better. Welbeck

Do your grand daughters know you hold these views
ronib ?

Thank you so much eazybee. I thought it easier not to continue the conversation…. But you have given me the courage to at least write to my mp as a start to see if regulations could be introduced. Thank you.

That’s your summary and conclusions eazybee. It isn’t one I share.

Given your limited understanding of the issues being discussed, it’s not surprising you’re lost ronib

I’ve seen you calling threads where people don’t agree with your view hysterical a few times now eazybee. Something to reflect on.

I’m sorry ronib, but you have tried every possible route of exonerating Prince Andrew for his actions with underage girls, and condemning Virginia Guiffre as a prostitute. I don’t know what other conclusion there is.

This thread is getting hysterical.
Virginia Roberts did work as a prostitute and she was paid; she was underage in America. Undisputed facts. Ronib is not condoning it.
Roberts left Epstein's employ after two years, when she met her husband, and had no contact with him until the court cases against him began. She gave evidence because a 14 year old girl had been recruited by a school friend to work for him, and her name was one given. Following the case she began her pursuit of Prince Andrew, who has always denied her accusations. Much of the attack on about him now has little to do with Guiffre, more about his financial exploits.
The now 'lost' photograph shows a happy , excited teenager; my belief, as valid as yours, is that she not coerced. That does not mean I condone whatever happened.

Virginia Roberts' downfall came through not taking the money she received from Epstein and Prince Andrew and using it to build a better life. Instead she made a career out of giving countless interviews, Andrew being a soft target, and attempting to sue 'other names,' , after promising she would not, which only added to her notoriety.
She reneged on a legal agreement made in 2009. The unsealed settlement states that upon receipt of the stipulated sum, (from Epstein) Giuffre, referred to under her maiden name, agrees to “remise, release, acquit, satisfy and forever the said second parties and any other person or entity who could have been included as a potential defendant … from all, and all manner of, action and actions of Virginia Roberts, including state or federal, cause and causes of action"

A life destroyed and a bitter end.

I agree Casdon.

No this is a wilful misrepresentation of my position. Casdon. No point continuing with this discussion.

That’s not what this thread is about ronib. You seem to condone men having sex with underage girls, so it is you who is adrift, not other posters, who to a woman, condemn that.

You do seem a bit adrift on this topic guys …. It’s not just The Netherlands with a regulated sex industry….. it needs to happen here too.

You have lost me completely Iam64

Iam64

ronib. I’m puzzled. By the disregard your posts show for the reality of so called sets work, sex industry, prostitution. You seem desperate to ensure that men get “their needs met”.
Have you had extensive contact with so called sex workers, other than your vicar ex sex prostitute friend., some of us have, others don’t need to have they read a reflect.

Yiu say yiu have daughters and granddaughters. That they’d be protected from the likes of Epstein. So on one level you understand the negatives, the high risks involved. But does that only apply to your precious females

That they’d be protected from the likes of Epstein

Sadly, one could never be sure.

Maxwell played her part too. So many young girls procured unwittingly by her interest in them.

That would be ideal Iam64. I’m not condoning what happens in the Netherlands, it still exploits vulnerable women.

The point is that with regulation, there would be much more protection for girls like Victoria Giuffre and also for the punters. Which may of course outrage some of you… but perhaps someone needs to look into it and report back to the government. Or even better the government needs to act. Fine chance.