Oops! The Prince formerly known as Duke drops another clanger!

Queen Elizabeth was a ruling monarch, which, dominated her life from the age of twenty=five.
Camilla is Queen Consort, a far less onerous position and one she came to far later in life.

theworriedwell

Allira

You’re absolutely right about the sort of mother she was when her children were young. She was not a good mother at all

You're going by media reports.

Queen Elizabeth tried to be the best mother she could be within the constraints of her rôle as Monarch. None of us can judge because none of us, even working mothers, have a clue what it was like to juggle that rôle with motherhood. When she had to go away on Royal tours her own mother became the 'mother figure' for her young children and, if course, there were nannies too.

The reason that Charles had less leeway than his siblings was because he, too, was being prepared for the rôle of Monarch one day too.

Charles, talking about his mother: "I remember we used to have lots of laughs ...."

How do you know she tried to be the best mother she could be. She had choices, he was a sensitive child and was sent away to a tough school where he was bullied and unhappy. She could have had her pick of any school, day or boarding. I can see she had good qualities but she wasn't some amazing person. People criticise Camilla but she seems a much warmer caring person to me. She performs her public duties in an exemplary manner. No need to be setting her up as second rate to QEII.

Do we want anyone to question where we sent our children to school, how we raised them up? I think she was poster woman for "keep calm and carry on" and probably expected no less from others.

Why she paid hush money for Andrew is bothersome.

We don’t actually know either Queen Elizabeth, or Queen Camilla, even if we have met them.
But slating people you don’t know is evidently such fun. 🤣🤣

Allira

^You’re absolutely right about the sort of mother she was when her children were young. She was not a good mother at all^

You're going by media reports.

Queen Elizabeth tried to be the best mother she could be within the constraints of her rôle as Monarch. None of us can judge because none of us, even working mothers, have a clue what it was like to juggle that rôle with motherhood. When she had to go away on Royal tours her own mother became the 'mother figure' for her young children and, if course, there were nannies too.

The reason that Charles had less leeway than his siblings was because he, too, was being prepared for the rôle of Monarch one day too.

Charles, talking about his mother: "I remember we used to have lots of laughs ...."

How do you know she tried to be the best mother she could be. She had choices, he was a sensitive child and was sent away to a tough school where he was bullied and unhappy. She could have had her pick of any school, day or boarding. I can see she had good qualities but she wasn't some amazing person. People criticise Camilla but she seems a much warmer caring person to me. She performs her public duties in an exemplary manner. No need to be setting her up as second rate to QEII.

You’re absolutely right about the sort of mother she was when her children were young. She was not a good mother at all

You're going by media reports.

Queen Elizabeth tried to be the best mother she could be within the constraints of her rôle as Monarch. None of us can judge because none of us, even working mothers, have a clue what it was like to juggle that rôle with motherhood. When she had to go away on Royal tours her own mother became the 'mother figure' for her young children and, if course, there were nannies too.

The reason that Charles had less leeway than his siblings was because he, too, was being prepared for the rôle of Monarch one day too.

Charles, talking about his mother: "I remember we used to have lots of laughs ...."

I think with Prince Andrew, the media are just drip, drip, drip feeding more of the same. There seems to be no doubt that he is a despicable human being, - spoilt, lazy and entitled. I am concerned that we will never find out the true extent of what happened here. I mean who were the other men (and women) who were involved in this terrible scandal? What right do they get to remain anonymous and get off scot free? What is being done to expose them and make them accountable?

theworriedwell

Crossstitchfan

I used to have great respect and even love, for the royal family, especially Queen Elizabeth11, but now? I don’t dislike Camilla as a person, but just can’t get my head around her as the Queen of England. Head of the WI, maybe, a Scout mistress, but the Queen?? No, sorry.
I think that once her Majesty Queen Elizabeth died, that was the end of the monarchy, and that should have been that. No-one in the world could fill her shoes. She was an amazing example to us all and is still so sadly missed by those of us who were grateful for her loyalty, dedication and style.
Even Catherine, when the time comes, although people seem to like her, won’t dilute the sadness we feel without our precious Queen Elizabeth.
They broke the mould when they made her.

I hope I'm not included in the we. The Late Queen had good points but she wasn't without failings, I don't think she was a wonderful mother for example. Poor little Prince Charles when she returned from Australia and then him being left at a school where he was desperately unhappy. No not a wonderful mother.

You’re absolutely right about the sort of mother she was when her children were young. She was not a good mother at all. But I was thinking more of her latter years when she handed all the horrible things that occurred then with dignity and grace. The divorces of three of her children, Windsor Castle, to name just a few. For all her wealth, I don’t think she had an easy life but she was stuck with it, and the way she handled that is why I admired her.

Epstein’s suicide
🤔 Very convenient.

Epstein’s suicide, then Virginia Giuffre?

🤔

I agree with merlotgran he's out of the way where he is, entirely contained, no longer in the public eye.

If he is charged and convicted that's a different matter.

He has a legal tenancy on the house.
If he pays the one peppercorn and stays put I see no reason to try to push him anywhere else.

Virginia was so distressed that she took her own life. That should be sufficient proof that whatever choices she had made or were made for her haunted her to the end. Writing the book may well have brought the horror of it all back home to her. She was driven to suicide and surely that is enough of a punishment without further denigration of her character.

ronib
"I must be in a minority here - but… Virginia G spent 6 months living with Ron Eppinger before she met Maxwell. Eppinger has quite some history and heavily into prostitution.
Additionally, Giuffre was banned from contact with her three children in Australia before her death.
I have a number of questions about her family history especially the role of her own father and mother in not protecting her".

On wikipedia today- Virgina Giuffre, early life: "It was reported that she came from a 'troubled home' and from the age of 7 was molested by a close family friend. In her memoir, Giuffre claimed that she was abused by her father from as early as the age of seven and that he might have might have received payments from Epstein.... She then went from being in 'an abusive situation, to being a runaway, to living in foster homes'. She lived on the streets at the age of 14, where she says she found only 'hunger and pain and more abuse'. Later she was abused by a sex trafficker, Ron Eppinger, in Miami. Giuffre lived with Eppinger for approximately 6 months. Eppinger reportedly ran a front business for international sex trafficking known as the Model agency 'Perfect 10'. He was raided by the FBI and later pleaded guilty to charges of alien smuggling for prostitution, interstate travel for prostitution and money laundering.

At age 14 Giuffre was reunited with her father and returned to live with him. Her father worked as a maintenance engineer at the Mar-a-Lago property owned by Donald Trump and helped Giuffre obtain a job there..." The wikipedia entries have many blue evidential links in support of key issues.

On another Gransnet post today in News and Politics section someone has posted this video tube interview: "From the Grave: Virginia Giufree names Israeli pm as her Epstein abuser"..

I have just listened to the interview. The PM referred to wasn't named in the book- but others have traced the date to her earlier court deposition documents, at time of incident, where she named the Israel PM Ethus Olmert. She described his rape as the most savage she had experienced and spurred her on to leave Epstein. Ethus Olmert was later convicted to 2 counts of bribery in 2014 to the equivalent of 160 US dollars. He returned to politics in 2019 stating an intention to set up a new party and challenge Netanyahu.

Apparently she chose not to specifically name many of her abusers in the book at time of writing as if they had not been convicted thus far she believed she would make herself vulnerable to retaliation. She named Andrew as she had already made her allegations in public and the case had been settled.

Guiffre successfully sued Maxwell for defamation in 2015. She pursued criminal charges against Epstein but he died so court documents were sealed (some released in 2019 for Maxwell's trial and some more recently- though not all). It has recently been reported here in UK that Prince Andrew had Giuffre's social security detail and asked his private security officer to dig up dirt on her and also may have tried to engineer on line trolling of her. Now apparently being investigated by Metropolitan police.

Virginia met Robert Giuffree in 2002, not so very long after escaping her life being trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell. She married him in April 2005 and they welcomed three children together. She was prevented from seeing her children only "in the months leading up to her death as a result of a restraining order filed by her husband Robert".

The facts show that Virginia had a troubled life from an early age. She was vulnerable and on the streets at the age of 14 a child. Children do not choose to become prostitutes. Men having sex with children are abusers- ALWAYS. Her father introduced her to Mar-a Lago and Trump. There Virginia came into contact with Epstein. Many of the men in her life from an early age, as a child, were not her benefactors, indeed were her abusers. She was damaged as a result. No child can be held responsible and blamed for the abusive acts towards her by adults. She was not protected and although escaped Epstein she did not escape her memories and there impact on her. She remained vulnerable.

Until their marriage began to break down Robert Giuffre had no declared concerns about Virginia. What were the reasons for him filing a restraining order, after many years of no concern parenting, during the breakdown of their marriage, to prevent her seeing her children- in all the circumstances it would be wholly unfair to speculate.

So many have sought to defame and smear Virgina Giuffre; I would not wish to join that list.

Perhaps he could move into Kensington. Seems there are empty apartments, space, privacy, security. Then Royal Lodge could be better maintained before becoming a mouldy mess.

Have just read Starmer wants PA to face MPs to answer questions, well I say what about Mandelson, he was also in a privileged position, representing our Country in America and was great friends with Epstein. I'm sure he has questions to answer too,or will he be allowed to fade into the distance without a murmur because he is a Labour peer. ??

Thank you Jane and merlotgran but I acknowledged on Sunday in my post @20.03 that you were correct about the Royal Lodge's state of disrepair merlotgran.

No mention of her parent also involved in the shenanigans, father took her to Epstein home, , mother, ac ordinary to Guiffre, drooled over her meeting a Prince, apparently asked for the infamous photo to be taken.
Not sure why she hasn't mentioned other abusers, apart from Andrew ,unfortunately must have been a few.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virginia-giuffre-book-father-epstein-b2849140.html

Crossstitchfan

I used to have great respect and even love, for the royal family, especially Queen Elizabeth11, but now? I don’t dislike Camilla as a person, but just can’t get my head around her as the Queen of England. Head of the WI, maybe, a Scout mistress, but the Queen?? No, sorry.
I think that once her Majesty Queen Elizabeth died, that was the end of the monarchy, and that should have been that. No-one in the world could fill her shoes. She was an amazing example to us all and is still so sadly missed by those of us who were grateful for her loyalty, dedication and style.
Even Catherine, when the time comes, although people seem to like her, won’t dilute the sadness we feel without our precious Queen Elizabeth.
They broke the mould when they made her.

I hope I'm not included in the we. The Late Queen had good points but she wasn't without failings, I don't think she was a wonderful mother for example. Poor little Prince Charles when she returned from Australia and then him being left at a school where he was desperately unhappy. No not a wonderful mother.

Where did you get your information from about the Royal Lodge's state of repair merlotgran?

Various sources including Andrew Lownie, Smileless

welbeck

The andrew formerly known as prince.
As seen on MN is an appropriate term for him.

Will the next step for him to be known only by a mysterious symbol, as a certain other 'Prince' once did?

Smileless2012

Where did you get your information from about the Royal Lodge's state of repair merlotgran?

I don't know if he's innocent or not Bazza; the only one who knows now is Prince Andrew.

www.thenews.com.pk/latest/1250266-prince-andrew-needed-250k-for-urgent-repairs-on-ageing-royal-lodge

vegansrock

He’s not been charged with anything as his mum paid £12million for civil case to be dropped. Paid to a woman he claims never to have met . Hmmm.

The case was settled not dropped.

Smileless2012

Would he J52? He hasn't been charged with anything.

Isn’t settling a way of admitting guilt?

ferry23 An ex prostitute I know has become a very successful Church of England vicar. There’s no point discussing this subject on this forum.

ronib

I must be in a minority here - but… Virginia G spent 6 months living with Ron Eppinger before she met Maxwell. Eppinger has quite some history and heavily into prostitution.
Additionally, Giuffre was banned from contact with her three children in Australia before her death.
I have a number of questions about her family history especially the role of her own father and mother in not protecting her.

You are most certainly in the minority. I'm not even sure you understand the allegations, the implications and the effect trafficking and sustained perids of abuse have on vulnerable, often needy girls - frequently from disadvantaged backgrounds and possibly having been abused through childhood.

You've accused Virginia G of being a prostitute on another thread - which is one of your comments that leads me to believe that you're not really understanding what's going on.

And I would also strongly argue against your assertion that a large majority of men pay for sex.

I don't know what you're reading or from where you're getting your information but it's not right. I'm afraid your comments just point to victim blaming.

You certainly are in a minority on here ronib.
At least I hope so.