Have you had ‘The chat’ with your children about your future care needs.

TO...cariad again
Thank you for your kind words, I'm 67, mentally and physically exhausted, safeguarding office wasn't intrested, police weren't interested, NO ONE CARES...no wonder the elderly are being abused...it A BIG PROBLEM WORSE THAN PEOPLE REALISE, I talk from experience, I'm intouch with people in the same position all over Britain

Maremia

Gosh, what an important Thread.
Depending on how long we each still have, another brand new factor might be relevant...'assisted dying'.
But that is probably worth it's own Thread.

Worth its own thread indeed.

We are hugely hampered by the fact that debate is censored in advance. We are not allowed to say about any of our own arrangements we might have made - or someone somewhere might "leap and belt us/try to censor us".

We're basically - to a huge extent and some of the reasons are ethical - and some arent (ie they're people trying to enforce their own "spiritual" viewpoint on us) not allowed to talk about this much. It won't always be that way. In the future - we will be able to talk openly and clearly - but right now = we can't in case of busybodies.

The main benefit to POA is the health part. Without this you cannot advocate for your parents properly
As parents get increasingly older there can be all sorts of complications and the poa allows you to ring gp up and discuss future ideas, Muddled medication , consultation information etc .
It means you can advocate for attendance allowance and care situations.

Also please don’t struggle with the money . Claim what you need , your parents have worked for it .
Use chat gtp to find out info or Google.

I have learnt so much in the last three years. My dad died recently at 98 my mum is now on full oxygen with home care at 89.

If you are struggling at hospitals with info don’t forget Pals.

Ref money . It’s also useful but you also have to apply individually for all sorts of extra permissions through the gov .

I feel I could write a book

Gosh, what an important Thread.
Depending on how long we each still have, another brand new factor might be relevant...'assisted dying'.
But that is probably worth it's own Thread.

So sorry Sadie!!! Wishing you good luck with this.

Though you'll still be left with the upset and all sorts of questions of knowing how she treated your mother generally. Very difficult and upsetting situation. Take care.

Both my adult children have estranged themselves from me so I dread to think what would happen to me so I am unable to let them know anything. The thought of a care home horrifies me. There's a lot to be said for assisted dying.

What do people suggest where grandmother has no children? (Grandchild's mother is hb's daughter from a previous relationship. Gm & hb's daughter not close and hb's daughter unlikely to be involved in care or these discussions.)

JUST A MESSAGE OF WARNING.
my dear mum who passed away 3 weeks ago had a p.o.a. in the wrong hands they are a loaded gun, we thought my neice was trustworthy, HOW WRONG WERE WE, she stole 1 hundred thousand from mum, fraud department dont want to know, ive got to take a private prosecution out, i can't afford to do it on a state pension, there's no legal aid anymore, to make matters worse, she took her to make a new will out at the age of 95, leaving everything to her and she's sole executer, all done behind my back, she was abuseing mum, mum was scared to tell me, I was 200 miles away , I've now blocked probate and fighting her through my legal insurance, PLEASE TAKE NOTE

Seapebble - just had a quick check and I can see how people might think it means "dead" to say "erstwhile".....maybe "estranged" might make it clearer that he's still alive (as far as I know).

With you on the "let us be at home muddling along......" and I have worked out how and even timed it = 15 minutes start to finish apparently. But in Britain we can't discuss it or someone would "leap in shouting" or some troublemaker/would-be helpful person would be yelling....

I knew I didn't dare leave a spare key with my best friend back when I was still living where she is - just in case - as she's an evangelical Christian and thinks rather differently to me on some things.

Jaxjacky

Yes, we also have wills and our verified POA should be live in a week or two having completed them a couple of months ago.
I also have a living will lodged with my GP. We do not have DNR as it only covers restarting the heart which may be necessary, other treatment would continue.

We have recently been through POA with a relative. As I understand it the POA is live from the minute it is signed. This I think is because, as in out case, the relative's mental health was getting much worse suddenly. If a formal diagnosis had been made and no POA signed, then Social Workers take over. As it is relative signed, a few weeks later the formal diagnosis was made. We are able now to look after her ourselves.

Intestate! Not "interstate" unless you're on a US road trip when it happens.

Cariadagain - really sorry about all you went through. Probably more easily interpreted to say "estranged" rather than erstwhile - I thought, despite knowing the meaning, it was a euphemism for deceased. I'm estranged from a sibling too.
I'm impressed with so many of you for taking care of business. We have seen absolutely terrible outcomes from friends and relatives dying interstate or without POA so it spurred us on to do all that but we haven't made it absolutely clear what we'd like - which is "let us be at home muddling along with some paid help until we need a care home and then, take a very large mallet (or the empty gin bottle) and..."

My mother did not have a diagnosis at the time.They were concerned that we didn’t live locally.

It is a load off my mind knowing that she is safe and cared for but it’s hard knowing she is living her worst fear.

Not an easy situation Witzend. It was a case of "cross your fingers and hope" to some extent re my mother come the end. But it was managed - with those carers and shopping done and there were gaps as it was (ie when my mother refused to have the perfectly pleasant home hairdresser in that I'd found for her).

I have my own plans for myself "if it comes to it" - but there is a worry in case my body had something happen that would mean I couldnt just think "Oh well - I'll be outa here (Earth) by the end of the day. I know how....". It can be concerning in case there is a "sudden" and noticeable type thing happen - eg a good older friend of mine had a stroke (largely recovered from) and was found by her husband/she's still alive now. If I had that - I would decide "Time to put my plans in operation and leave" - and there is a worry in case I couldnt force my body to do precisely ten minutes worth of work to do so and stop worrying.

So - yep....and it's difficult to know just what one could do about some things......even if you Have Plans for all contingencies in case.

The thing is, CariadAgain, people who need a great deal of care may well not want to move to a care home, but can’t seem to understand (or don’t want to) that the usual 4 visits a day simply won’t be enough, and/or that family members are completely unable (or unwilling) to fill the gaps.

There will quite often come a time when someone needs to be on hand 24/7, 365 days a year.

If someone with full mental capacity cannot accept this, and insists in staying at home regardless, sometimes - sadly - it will take some sort of crisis in order for things to change.

Witzend - That's exactly what I was thinking of that I didnt contest the will. I knew my mother had that dementia, I knew my father basically "did what he was told" by my mother (ie she ran things). I could have proved my fathers dementia (it was all official) - but I couldnt have proved it for my mother (because it hadnt been officially confirmed). So - even if her doctor had confirmed she had dementia and she had talked to me about that fact = I didnt think there would be enough evidence without that official diagnosis. I'd read about things like that happening and the "wrongdoer" getting away with their ill-gotten gains. I'd also read about just how much money it takes to fight this sort of case and I'm a lot brighter than my brother - but I did not fancy my chances in case they got a decent solicitor to represent them. Maybe I could have dealt with a bad one (I have before now in a different context) - but I would have had problems if he'd got a decent one.

So I asked him to put it right - ie back to 50% me/50% him (whereas my mother had gone and changed it to being 75% him and his adult kids) and he refused pointblank. I told him the legal process to change it - ie a deed of variation to put it back to normal.

Even though I'd rather anticipated it - as he'd been there with his hand out asking our mother before I even had to move to Wales - but HE had already moved elsewhere in the country!!!! - but he'd been in there at her years before asking for "some for my children" and he didnt mean a token amount. So we were treated as 4 people - me, him, child 1, child 2!!!!! We should have been treated as 2 people - me and him to keep it fair - as I had no control (obviously) over whether he had children or no. Yep.....I took it as "Everyone is thinking I don't matter - because my choice was to not have children. He apparently matters more because he has done". Yep...it hurt....and was/is taken as "I don't matter as much as he does to our parents. I thought my father at any rate cared for me and was fairminded - and I was wrong". That is how an unfair inheritance is perceived by the person on the receiving end of that. It ain't about the money - it's about the fairness.

I'd got a lot on my plate anyway - as it was "2020 and all that" going on and I've had some awful neighbour issues since moving here (eg one even stole a bit of my garden off me). So I decided I had to "leave it to karma" to deal with - and have seen remnants enough of my ex sister-in-laws largely censored Facebook page that I think I can see what karma is lining up for them.

But yep.....one gets with a very nasty taste in the mouth about something like that - the feeling that you weren't really cared for by literally anyone. Earth is a pretty awful/hard planet to live on (it's often been referred to as "the Hell planet") and you can't even think "Well at least I really mattered to someone/someone really cared". That's gone...

But I had the sense not to risk what money I did get fighting him and his (in charge) wife. I wince sometimes thinking "If I'd had that 50% I would have had the choice whether to move back to England - would I have?" and it hurts having had that choice removed from me - because there isn't enough money to cover that if I did choose to.

I'm surprised that could happen Susan - ie enforced carehome. Was she mentally capable of making her own decisions still - or were they going to ignore her decisions (ie by saying she didnt have mental capacity to make them)?

My mother had that (not officially diagnosed) Alzheimers and stayed put in their home with carers going in 4 times a day and her shopping being done online for her. Admitted it was a chalet bungalow that they'd bought many years beforehand - and so everything she needed was there on the ground floor and all that was upstairs was the two bedrooms my erstwhile brother and I had had and a loo. Not that that necessarily stopped her going upstairs occasionally and one of those times resulted in her falling back down the stairs...

Cariad, wise words! I used to know someone whose father, with as yet undiagnosed dementia, had a live-in carer - employed by the family.

The woman had what looked like impeccable references, but had soon gained such control over the poor man, that he was nervous of seeing his formerly very close own family, and was rarely allowed to see them at all.

Next thing they knew, she’d taken him abroad, married him, and got him to change his will entirely in her favour.

He died not too long afterwards, and TBH the family suspected that the ‘carer’, an ex nurse, had known how to ‘help’ him on his way.

They did contest the will, but she was very clever and plausible, and since the dementia had not been diagnosed, they lost. And it was a substantial estate.

My mother did all the right things.I have POA, all her wishes discussed.She was determined to never go into a care home.

When she was ill last year, her wishes counted for nothing.The nurses were sure she could go home with a package of care but the dr said no it had to be a care home.

The POA is great in that I can deal with her finances how she wished and also make decisions re her health care on what we discussed but for everyone saying they will never go in a care home, mum had that choice made for her.

I bought one of these a few months ago, and have completed most of it. I found it really helpful as it made me think of the things we do procrastinate with. It give areas to put in where wills, POA are. What bank accounts and savings you have. What your wishes are for your funeral. etc.
When my DH became terminally ill at 56 years old, a POA was essential, helping him get the care he needed. Please don't delay doing one.

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Another reason to get a will done NOW being in case of dementia. You do not want a situation where one of your children knows you changed your will after you'd got dementia! Yep my mothers doctor and I agreed she had it. But it hadnt been officially diagnosed - and so it was a "will changed after dementia had struck". But it held - because there hadn't been that official diagnosis.

You want to make that will NOW - while you and everyone else is quite clear your mind is fully functional - rather than afterwards (ie when it might not be).

Also a prolonged session under general anaesthetic (eg a heart bypass operation) can have a very quick effect on the mind. I still swear my father went into his (NHS) heart bypass operation - ie hours under general anaesthetic - with his full normal (very nearly Mensa level) mind and came out hours later with average intelligence/start of vascular dementia. Hours under general anaesthetic can have an effect on the mind - and one never knows if a heart attack is looming quietly.

AFAIK a DNR only covers resuscitation when the heart has stopped.

What we added to our H&W Ps of A goes like this:

‘If I should develop dementia, or any other condition where I am unable both to care for myself, and speak, with full mental capacity for myself, then I do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment. I ask for palliative care only.’

Allalongagatha

Lots of people saying I will do it after Christmas. Accidents happen without notice.

I was thinking "Whoops...potential for trouble there" when I read about "doing it after Christmas" and thinking "NO - do it now....you never know".

I can understand that some peoples wills are more complicated than others. My own is incredibly straightforward - it could be summed-up in one line of "I leave absolutely everything to X". That's it = job done. Whereas some people will be going into "This percentage to this and that percentage to that" and there will be some very complicated wills around. But I would imagine most peoples are a fairly basic one of "50% to this child and 50% to the other child". So bar someone being wealthy and with all sorts of trusts and things going on = it doesn't take very long to do the "ordinary person in the street" type will.

In the case of someone on their own with a will as extremely basic as mine even - I thought for a moment this morning "Not another illness Dear Body - don't you dare - or I might consider that one illness too many to be fighting to get rid of". Yep...I give my body big talkings-to about what I would not put up with...warning it to 'behave or else'. One day I could have to decide I wasn't going to be alive the following day - but at least my will has already been done and so that's sorted. So how does anyone know if they'll still be here at the end of the day - we just presume we will. None of us knows.

Twiglet - I presume AC means "actual children"???? No they don't all have to be executors - as I know personally. In the event my parents just made my brother and his wife executors and I was deemed to be "nothing" in my mothers eyes and my father went along with it. That's why I had to fight to be the one to choose our fathers nursing home (they were not going to choose the best one there was - they planned on choosing one right by a main road only 5 minutes walk from our parents home). If they had chosen the home they wanted and knowing that our mother was refusing pointblank to even visit our father - I know exactly what would have happened and he would have set out to cross that very busy road to walk back to their home to see her and there was some unsafe steps inside the place too. I then had another fight with them at each parents death - so that I could see the death certificate and ensure it was accurate (I was very well aware that lots of people had it down on their death certificates in 2020 onwards that they'd died of Covid - when they hadnt at all and had died of their own illnesses they had anyway). So I needed to check and I figure all the officials etc involved had probably got me summed-up well enough that they wouldnt do that (ie "This one isn't daft - and she's a fighter") - and they didnt. They only put my parents own illnesses I knew very well they had on those death certificates - so at least that wasnt an issue - but I needed to check for myself and wasnt going to take anyone's word for it.

So yep I had to have two fights basically with them - because I wasn't down as an executor - and I am still extremely suspicious at such an absolutely exact round figure of money that was what came to me....to an absolute exact number of pounds (no odd pennies) and at such a very very round figure all round and I would have liked to see the paperwork calculations of how come it came to such a suspiciously round figure (and how come some of my mothers jewellery was missing - though it was all left to me - even though the next thing I did after seeing that unfair will was to give what jewellery there was away/didnt even sell it). Little thought there - it would probably have been wise for that jewellery to be listed - so it can be checked that no daughter-in-law or carer has walked off with it - as someone certainly had in my case.

You just never know....

So - on the phone to that solicitor today! A will can be done extremely quickly - my mother had taken literally hours to tell my father their will was going to be changed/phoned their solicitor/been down and seen the solicitor and had that done within 24 hours when I told them I was going to have to move to Wales. So they can be done extremely quickly.

Yes cabbie21 I think the control thing is a reason in a lot of cases where the wife knows nothing of the life admin.stuff and often the husband hasn't coped with it all anyway that well. Hopefully younger couples don't fall into that trap.
DH is past coping with anything now so it is on my shoulders but I do keep my DDs updated. I have let them know the names of the 2 banks we bank with where current and savings accounts, ISAs etc are held and the approx amount of money held there. I am reluctant to write down numbers and passwords. They would be able to access all by appoitment at the banks as they have POA for both of us.

No, I haven't had 'The Chat' with my children on anything. We have never had subjects we did not talk about so these subjects get mentioned like most things when something happens to trigger them. usually a few senences and then that leads into a different conversation.

We appointed POAs about 30 years ago, as soon as our children were of age and have had wills, revised several times, since just after they were born.

I am not sure I would want to stay in my own home if I was widowed and housebound. It must be very lonely. I would prefer to be in a care home with all the facilities it can offer, and background company.

Family and other commitments mean I have been in and out of a lot of care homes as responsible relative or friend and I know good and bad ones, when I see them and I have told my children what, for me, are the key features. I am in the fortunate position, where I can afford to pay for good care for some time.