Loose Women talking about teachers' holidays

My personal view is that children are so precious and their education so very important that teaching should be much more highly regarded. I’d love to see them paid a whole lot more and then perhaps making more desirable as a career choice, and they could perhaps be given a whole lot more respect.

No one denies that teachers provide a very valuable service, and yes they work hard and their job is stressful. But jobs that are stressful aren't exclusive to being a teacher.

Where the figures are concerned, teachers are contracted to work 190 days, 38, weeks, and there are 5 inset days within that number. Most people in similarly experienced jobs in the private sector are only getting 5 weeks holiday per year. I'm not sure why teachers are working all holiday. DD2 and family are going skiing this half term and to Milan in the Easter break. I can't remember where they're going in the Summer for a fortnight, it might be Greece. She is Head of Department in a secondary school.

Teaching is onerous but these days more homework is done on Apps which are self marking. Also more statutory non contact time is given.

I'm pleased that this time round there is a more balanced discussion going on here. It isn't a competition who has the most difficult job because I've done both and know that running a business is very very stressful too, (and the pension perks aren't as good either!)

anna7

Statutory holidays in the UK are 28 days including bank holidays . Teachers get around 13 weeks . I know they work hard and some of the 13 twelve weeks is spent on preparation etc but I still think that's pretty good.

I think, perhaps, you’re not really aware of the amount of admin that is required nowadays.

I don’t blame you it’s invisible from the outside. It really did take up most of the “holidays”to catch up.

In fact, I never did manage to do it all🙁

When I was teaching English, every evening and weekend was taken up by marking. I had no choice if I wanted to do the best by my pupils. We were expected to provide work for easter school too. The summer holidays were often spent researching new texts I was expected to teach and preparing a unit of work. In addition there was CPD also known as continuous professional development to do and fill in the relevant paperwork. The actual teaching was a joy, the constant paperwork not so much.
In the summer it took me 2 weeks to recover from the previous session and I usually took my kids on holiday then. The last 2 weeks were spent organising my classroom and finding evidence for exam appeals. The in between times were used for reading new texts, annotating them and writing up lessons.
I think Loose Women are being deliberately provocative.

educate their children

I think one of the problems-as opposed to other work- is that the job is undefined and increasingly wide ranging so that you are always failing in one aspect or another. That makes job satisfaction minimal and the ethos is one of constant criticism, no matter how much effort you put in.

The parameters of the job have become so vast, to include mental health of both children and adults, social welfare and medical needs. This is in addition to teaching and learning.
And the amount of admin required for every aspect totally unmanageable.

The way forward must be to create a more definitive job description. One that focuses on education, that defines the out of the classroom work needed and that has realistic expectations of what can be achieved.

And “holidays” should be in line with other professionals, but should be that - holidays. With the acknowledgment that substantial non-contact time is needed to enable all the other tasks to be carried out.

It won’t happen I know, because it would require enormous sums of money to employ other people to do all the non-teaching jobs that teachers do.

Parents put their trust in teachers not only to educate them but to look after them during school hours. It's a big responsibility looking after other people's children.

Also as we saw recently on the news teachers are often attacked by children. My DD was stalked by one of her students which was frightening for her

I think it's wrong to compare teaching with other jobs as it's really not comparable.
I have other children who work long hours in offices and have stress but their stresses are work related whereas teachers are dealing with children and young people who have multiple needs and different personalities.
Dealing with other adults in an office is a different ball game to children who often don't have control of their emotions.

Statutory holidays in the UK are 28 days including bank holidays . Teachers get around 13 weeks . I know they work hard and some of the 13 twelve weeks is spent on preparation etc but I still think that's pretty good.

I know teachers work hard, before and after school and during some of the school holidays.

So do many other people in other professions, the days of a 9-5 job, 5 days a week have long gone.

The drop out rate for teachers is high.
Make of that what you will.

I think many teachers do want to leave but realise options are limited in terms of salary, pension and holidays elsewhere. They stay because they have mortgages to pay not because they enjoy teaching.

I do not think teachers or pupils should holiday in term time. Neither do I think they should be toileting children that parents are to lazy to train or teach how to dress or eat properly, that is parents job, They are not carers. That should be made clear and a condition before the school takes the child, I think its an exaggeration saying that all teachers spend the holidays working just as hard. I do think that teachers are there to teach and how can they with one child disruptive or needing constant help. The whole class suffers and its totally wrong for teachers to have to out up with it.

sazz1

So annoyed at what they were saying on today's programme. Basically it was should teachers get holidays in term time too. Obviously I didn't agree with that but then it was emphasised that they already get 12 weeks holiday.
No they don't! My DD is a teacher and does an enormous amount of overtime often working from home well into the night. She emails parents, replying to parents problems, marking books, shopping for materials for a class session eg tulips to disect for biology, and paid for them herself. Plus she has lessons to plan, books to mark, reports to type up etc. When a primary teacher plans a lesson they have to plan one for average abilities, one for below average abilities and one for gifted and talented pupils. That is 3 planned for each lesson. On top of that she often goes to boot sales to buy reading books to stock her classroom again out of her own money. In the 6 weeks holidays several days are spent sorting out the classroom, the cupboards, checking stock, making posters and putting them up, naming pegs for the new intake, aranging tables and chairs and cleaning everything. Plus most of the teachers run a club after school for the children. My daughter often has a student to support and assess too. There are often phone calls to her in the evening if they don't understand what they have to prepare for set tasks.
How many other workers would do all this in their holidays or after the working day?

I used to do all of that when I was teaching. I once spent nearly the whole of the summer holidays making costumes for a school play.

I agree that it is certainly not a 9-3.30 job, and teachers deserve their holidays, but I do also feel there is a bit of exaggeration of the extra hours teachers spend on non class contact time. Some examples I see make it sound as if teachers never get any time off!
I’ve worked in schools for many years, and many teachers, especially in the SEN classes I worked in, did spend lots of their own time ( and money) on resources, but certainly not ‘ all hours of the day and night’.
Also, depending on your subject in secondary classes, there are various trips and outings teachers are expected to attend outwith term time. My son has just come here after doing prep and assessments which took him until 10pm, but that doesn’t happen regularly. He also had to take a party of seniors to London for a week, albeit in term time, but still hardly a holiday!

AGAA4

4allweknow working with children and young adults is much more challenging than sitting in an office.

Depends what the job is. The poster said she works in a office, she stayed until 8pm, she was even working at the airport. Although she said she was in a office we don't know what job she was doing.
I hate this type of comparison, other people are stressed, they work in situations where they have to make difficult decisions. Teachers are not the only one's. Personally I could not care less about the holidays they get, but let's not think teachers are the only ones that are stressed.

No career should eat into your life to the extent that it impinges on your non-working time (unless you want it to)
I think I understand what you're saying, but the part in brackets is most interesting.
If you view teaching as a vocation, a type of work that you feel you should give all your time and energy to, then inevitably it will eat into your life. The way to overcome this, in my experience, is to not resent it.

My DD is also teaching and I whole heartedly agree with all the above comments.
They certainly do not get paid their worth considering the extra tasks that keep getting added to their already long list of things to do. Furthermore there are constant streams of meetings they need to attend.
Don’t people and government realise why there is a depleted workforce in teaching, even getting classes covered by agencies is difficult. This all adds to their stress.
I don’t think the government goes far enough to protect our teachers. I recently wrote to Wes Streeting to ask that teachers be offered the Covid vaccination for free, as the cost is £100. Considering they are in different classrooms in schools of over a thousand children. They like nhs need this protection as the schools struggle when teachers are off. My response was that they had no plans to change their current strategy. I’m appalled at the GOV ‘s lack of forward thinking. My DD has to cope with so many children sent to school with viruses etc so the classrooms become large mixing pots. I do understand that parents have to work, so any measure that offers them some protection should be offered.
I think too many people remember how teaching was, but it’s a very different story nowadays. Let’s not forget that the unions appear to have blinkers on when it comes to the ever expanding teachers role. Everyone in society needs to support teachers in all their endeavours.

Icandoit

There are many jobs nowadays that require much more work to be done than a 'set' hour day. I admire those who just get on with what is required and needed. However, surely when deciding to go into the 'teaching' profession everyone knows the consequences i.e. not a 9-3.30 day. Before you embark on any career you know the advantages/pitfalls, it's life, not only in professional jobs either. There are some who give/enjoy and some who don't want to give extra/enjoy, find something that suits you better I say. I don't think the teaching profession will change, this has been a constant complaint in teaching for many years now.

A question for you. Why have you put the word teaching in inverted commas before typing ‘profession’?

I think it’s not a question of those who go into the teaching profession not realising it’s not a 9 - 3.30 career with lots of holidays, but rather a misconception held by many not involved with the teaching profession who think it is.

Anyone training to teach and perhaps then going on to teach, will know the consequences of what it involves, and all the extra hours expected. No, it’s rather some who are not involved in the profession who think it’s a cushy little number with lots of holidays, short working days and plenty of free time, which, of course, is rubbish.

Like any profession, teaching involves lots of hidden hours of work that many probably don’t realise.

No career should eat into your life to the extent that it impinges on your non-working time (unless you want it to), and means you can’t easily switch off. Unfortunately, in many careers these days, that seems to be the norm and the expectation, and it shouldn’t be, whether it’s teaching or some other work.

As others have said, maybe try teaching if you think we're exaggerating!

There are many jobs nowadays that require much more work to be done than a 'set' hour day. I admire those who just get on with what is required and needed. However, surely when deciding to go into the 'teaching' profession everyone knows the consequences i.e. not a 9-3.30 day. Before you embark on any career you know the advantages/pitfalls, it's life, not only in professional jobs either. There are some who give/enjoy and some who don't want to give extra/enjoy, find something that suits you better I say. I don't think the teaching profession will change, this has been a constant complaint in teaching for many years now.

Mojack; we're certainly on the same wave length. I retired 20 years ago but whenever someone commented on our long holidays and short days and once someone even referred to the job as part-time (mainly in my younger days I have to say) I used to ask what stopped them from becoming a teacher if it's such a cushy number. Just as you said, Mojack, no answer, but back in the 70's I would wonder whether it was the pay or the qualifications 😄

Menopauselbitch

Anyone that owns their own business.

I had the joy of owning a whole school, and being a teacher at the same time, so a bit of a double whammy! There weren't enough hours in the day, or night, but I know I gave it everything I could.

You just have to suck it up and soldier on through the onerous bits. In lots of jobs you do that, you have to work extra hours at home, and sometimes in your holiday. You have to juggle lots of tasks, you're not appreciated, you're exhausted. That's often just the way it goes.

I don't think the LW presenters should comment on a job they know nothing about, but I don't think teachers are that hard done by either, and my DD2 is one.

My daughter is a teacher & I don’t know how she does it. 30 pupils in a class & most of them tower over her. She spends most evenings, weekends & holidays checking,preparing etc she goes in at half term to help pupils prepare for upcoming exams. When we finally go away it is at the most expensive time for all of us.

4allweknow working with children and young adults is much more challenging than sitting in an office.

Worked fot local authority. 4 weeks holiday. After staying in office until 8 pm when computer system shut down for backing up drove home (20 mins) to continue working until 12 - 1 am. Husband had made meals, I scoffed within mins. This was the norm. If I wanted to be sure I had a full evening off I took annual leave. On one occasion sat at airport for 3 hours awaiting holiday flight doing reports and emailing them to work. A lot of people do more than their 8 hour shift five days a week.