Four more horses die in the name of ‘sport’

I’d be more wary of the Shetlands. Fiesty little creatures. We went to a shire horse centre years ago and were allowed to go into the field with them. But were warned to keep clear of the shetlands.

There is a garden centre near me that has two Shetland ponies. They are totally placid and seem more interested in grass and hay than humans.
OTOH I wouldn't chance going in a field with a full size stallion, as they can be very unpredictable and dangerous.

"Riding horses, particularly competition horses is not for the faint ger than a human hearted, they are capable of killing you, they are powerful animals with a mind of their own and they are unpredictable. --------"

TBH, any equine, right down to Shetland pony size is far stronger than a human and can do serious damage if handled wrongly or has been abused. Fortunately a well handled and properly treated equine is a gentle, obliging and friendly creature. Any hurt it might cause is more due to the person handling it not being in tune with equine behaviour.

PS Foxie's second paragraph as quoted also serves as a metaphor for the role of competitiveness in governance of societies . Both human societies and horsemanship need cooperation not competition.

Quote foxie:

"Riding horses, particularly competition horses is not for the faint hearted, they are capable of killing you, they are powerful animals with a mind of their own and they are unpredictable. ------------"
"Basic dressage is the foundation of good riding and done properly as basic schooling builds the correct musculature that will protect a ridden equine, it also give riders the skills to keep themselves and the horse safe and IMO helps to build the relationship between horse and rider."

I understand and agree with the above. I had believed that all dressage riders fitted foxie's description. as in the quite above, Now I see that . Now I see that the iron fist of competition in all areas can and does destroy what can be the best of horsemanship

Yes, MayBee70 there is a lot more to the CDJ story and having watched that video a number of times I didn't see the lunge whip actually touched the horse at any time, the horse was wearing boots, it would have made a noise but not inflicted any pain. tbh the horse was completely unreactive to the whip which is a sure sign of previous incorrect use. Not a nice video to watch but CJD didn't create that situation, she hadn't worked with the horse before and she had been asked to try to solve a problem created because of previous poor training. The video was taken a long time before it was released to the public just before the Olympics by someone associated with a different country's team. All a bit of a coincidence. I have no doubt team GB would have won a gold individual medal and probably a Gold team instead of bronze if she had been on the team. However, it was wonderful for Becky Moody to be in the team and she rose to the occasion brilliantly, she's an absolute pleasure to watch.

There was a lot of controversy about Totilas and the Rollkur way of training wasn’t there ( not that I understand it). But I remember a friend of mine who wasn’t interested in horses phoning me up and raving about a dressage horse she’d seen on tv. I don’t think Charlotte did anything much wrong; I’m convinced somebody was out to remove her from the competition. She wouldn’t have the sort of rapport she has with horses if she doesn’t care about them and it wasn’t fair on the horse missing out on more Olympic glory.

I wouldn't disagree with you foxie. Your last paragraph says just what dressage is really about. But top level dressage has gone through a horrible phase in the last few decades..

Maizie As someone who follows dressage and competed myself (albeit at a relatively low level Adv med) sadly much of what you have said is true but it is not the norm. I was at the last Olympics in Paris specifically to watch all of the dressage and there is definitely a move to reward correctly trained horses that move with freedom and less tension. Interestingly, it definitely affected the marks. I was with a listed judge and we both agreed that generally the reason some well known competitors had done less well than previously was they had been forced to give their horses more freedom and I am absolutely for that.
The atmosphere at Versailles was electric and even getting a horse into the arena was, IMO, a real test of horsemanship let alone producing a relaxed, tension free test. I am conflicted, I've watched wonderful freestyles that have literally brought tears, I've watched some that have made me feel uncomfortable but equally I've ridden some that have been on the edge and I've felt glad to have survived.
Riding horses, particularly competition horses is not for the faint hearted, they are capable of killing you, they are powerful animals with a mind of their own and they are unpredictable. If a rider is a bit strong in the hand, or uses the curb too much in a double bridle, yup, I've been there, done that and regretted it. The trouble is, horses aren't machines they don't come with a handbook and they are all so different. As I said, I'm really conflicted, love the sport, love to watch well trained horses and riders but also aware that some riders will use short cuts to produce what they want and that is neither good for the horse nor good for dressage but I want the sport to survive.
Basic dressage is the foundation of good riding and done properly as basic schooling builds the correct musculature that will protect a ridden equine, it also give riders the skills to keep themselves and the horse safe and IMO helps to build the relationship between horse and rider.

Some owners will pay tens of thousands of pounds on stem cell treatment to repair tendons without even knowing if the horse will ever race again. Dream Alliance had that treatment and his group of owners weren't well off at all; quite the opposite.

And check out Tennesee Walking Horses. Now that really is barbaric.

Maremia

And the 'numbers' comment?

And the link to the site I’ve asked for twice and now a third time.

Having trouble finding it🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I am not sure about dressage----I may be wrong but there seems to be no cruelty in dressage.

Sadly, you are wrong, there is cruelty in dressage, cruelty far worse than the Charlotte du Jardin episode, which I am inclined to believe was only severely penalised by the FEI, the dressage governing body, because it involved the use of a whip and that is firmly associated with cruelty in the eyes of the general public and with the Olympics due to start not punishing it would have given dressage a very bad image.

There is the use of severe bits, nosebands which crank the horse's mouth tight shut and overuse of spurs. But the non horsey public wouldn't know about how bad this can be.

Then there are methods used to force the horse's head into what is considered to be the right position, the arched neck and the front of the head vertical (or even behind the vertical. which are actually not in accordance with the principle that the highest point of the neck should be at the poll, just behind the ears and the nose should be vertical or slightly in advance of the vertical.

A horse naturally uses its hindquarters to propel itself forward, not its forelegs but forcing it into this neck and head position can hamper the use of its hindquarters so it has to drag itself forward with its front legs, putting stress on muscles which aren't designed to do that. And when horses are doing flashy things with their forelegs people don't notice that its back legs are doing very little.

And I bet most non horsey people are unaware that if a horse in a dressage competition has signs of blood on its sides or around its mouth it is eliminated? It's shocking that this rule even exists because no horse should ever be subject to techniques which draw blood...

This isn't a blanket condemnation of dressage by any means, just of the way that some riders achieve what the judges appear to like at a great cost to the horse... Watching top level dressage can be a great pleasure or absolutely excruciating.

fgs, no one has suggested that racehorse owners/trainers/ jockeys/ bookies etc are all benign. They are representative of a large group of people and there will be a few baddies in there just like any other group of people. They do gene therapy testing in lots of sports eg cycling but no one is suggesting cyclists are all people who will use dope to gain advantage but the testing will hopefully catch anyone who does.

I don't know if it has been used for benign purposes and I know that trials have been taking place in humans too (sadly not for old people like me, eg instead of knee replacements etc).

It is the possibility of it being used for performance enhancement that is banned.

Now Allira, and GNs, do you think the 'gene therapy' has not happened here because racehorse owners are benign, too good to their horses, and would never, ever consider it,
or
because if they do they will be caught?

And the 'numbers' comment?

Dressage actually puts a lot of strain on horses tendons.

Maremia

Try BBC Sport 25th March for info about gene therapy testing.

As Lathyrus says, it is being introduced to make sure that this does not happen in future, both here and internationally.

There have been no cases found in this country as yet.

Once upon a time someone who had a horse raced it against their friends' horse or horses. Some Borders common ridings events still have race days when this happens , and there is no commercial purpose at all----simply a local event for local people.

We are not against owning and riding horses . We oppose the racing industry in its commercialised state

Show jumping is sometimes overdone when horses are made to jump terrifying obstacles. I am not sure about dressage----I may be wrong but there seems to be no cruelty in dressage.

I am glad there are horsey people who conserve rare breeds such as the Suffolk Punch and the bay Clydesdale.

Maremia

Try BBC Sport 25th March for info about gene therapy testing.

The one where it says there s no evidence that Gene Therapy doping has been used in acing but that the BHA wants to protect against any future possibility and has spent £2,000,000 doing that.

I think that shows how determined they are they there should be no doping of any kind in British horse racing.

Could you pos the link to the sites you found on Google saying doping was a current problem.

In spite of using Google and other search engines as well I can’t find any.

Try BBC Sport 25th March for info about gene therapy testing.

Ladies, GNs please re-read this Thread and say in which post I mentioned 'numbers'.
And may I ask. Numbers of what?

Caleo I can't really distinguish between intelligence, instinct and training because I used all three when working with horses. Nappiness is IMO understandable, particularly in youngsters, because horses are herd animals. I'm not sure it's a sign of intelligence more instinct, I think, and overcoming it IMO comes with consistent training, patience and sometimes finding what works for that particular horse. tbh I don't really think equines are "naughty" I think what we perceive as "naughty" is often a sign that the horse doesn't understand, is uncomfortable or is just questioning the rider/ horse relationship a bit. Equines are very sensitive to body language both in and out the saddle so they are constantly picking up information about us humans that they use in their relationships with us, just like they do with other equines.

I guess it depends how you define intelligence. With dogs Border Collies are supposed to be more intelligent than sighthounds because they do as they’re told. Whereas sighthounds do what suits them. Recall is hit and miss…if they see something on the horizon that takes their fancy they’re off. Is it more intelligent to decide to do what’s best for themselves?What does fascinate me is the way animals have senses that are beyond our comprehension. Smell, hearing telepathy. I often wonder what my dogs life is like in that she gets so much information from sniffing. And they say their time clock is down to smell etc. When you go out they know that when your smell has reduced by a certain amount you will be returning. Cats know when you’re going on holiday and it isn’t just because they see you packing. Horses will stand by the gate knowing someone is on the way to feed them. A horse that is quite fiery will be gentle as a lamb with a small child or a disabled person. Endo the blind horse learned how to navigate the world without sight and listened to what his owner told him to do. He jumped, did trail riding…everything a sighted horse could do.