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This is crazy!

(57 Posts)
Luckygirl3 Fri 20-Mar-26 09:36:40

I am a trustee of our local village hall. We want to put a pedestrian path with a rail on one side of the rather steep drive to separate pedestrians from cars and to make it easier for people with disabilities.

It seems we not only need planning permission but also a Biodiversity Net Gain Plan that could cost us £1500 or more as the area of the path is more than 25 square metres!
The path will cover part existing tarmac and part verge.

The BNG plan was intended to cover new developments and applying it to this tiny safety project seems quite bonkers.

I am all for protecting the environment but this is just OTT.

Any ideas as to how we might circumvent this in some way?

Allira Tue 24-Mar-26 10:03:56

Even though the verge may look lifeless due to tyre tread there will be life underground.

I think the verge is a verge - ie grass strip and the cars shouldn't be encroaching on it (but might). If a rail is put up to define the boundary between drive and pedestrian path then the verge would have to be tarmacked and the grass lost. I wasn't being facetious when I suggested encouraging dandelions along the edge as they are excellent for encouraging wildlife, although, of course, someone may helpfully do some weeding at a future date.

Which side of the drive will the proposed path be sited, Luckygirl? Who owns the land either side of the drive?

Graphite Tue 24-Mar-26 09:49:14

Fair enough, and full disclosure ... in my early morning bleariness, I mistook you for OP which may explain why my post came across as it did. Apologies. We are both trying to be helpful and practical.

Lathyrus3 Tue 24-Mar-26 09:43:14

Well, I’m with you there. It came over as if you were launching at me personally for posting about the conversation I had.

I’m only mildly interested in something I hadn’t heard of before, enough to do a little post with coffee but not enough to watch a video.🙂

Graphite Tue 24-Mar-26 09:29:53

I'm not annoyed. but I do feel frustrated when people take a negative approach to a problem which may not, in the end, be the mountain they envisage. Sight (or is that site?) unseen, others then encourage the negative response which doesn't help in any practical sense.

As I said upthread, the area our own community hall has been much enhanced by BNG projects all paid for (including the BNG reports) by local grants.

It helps that we have very experienced parish councillors, administrators and a fantastic events and fundraising coordinator who have managed all of these projects with the help and guidance of the city councillor who represents our ward.

Lathyrus3 Tue 24-Mar-26 09:10:25

Luckygirl 😬

Lathyrus3 Tue 24-Mar-26 09:10:06

Well no Graphite, I admit I didn’t watch your video, being only interested in a desultory, curious sort of way in Lucygirls problem.

I’m sorry if my post annoyed you.

Graphite Tue 24-Mar-26 09:04:22

Did you watch the video I linked to upthread? I’m wondering if you did as only now you are saying that the net gain doesn’t have to be in the same area as the project. This is clearly explained in the video.

That was only one example of the tools available and I can see that there are free ones. The gov.uk website refers to a free Excel-based tool which used to calculate biodiversity units for development projects.

If you can use a spreadsheet to keep track of personal finances and household bills you should be able to use an Excel-based tool - or one of the other trustees might be able to.

Even though the verge may look lifeless due to tyre tread there will be life underground.

It doesn’t matter how many people on this thread say this is ridiculous and make flippant remarks, it doesn’t help you progress the matter - which you will have to do.

The sum quoted sounds excessive. As with any job you need to seek more than one quotation which you would have to do if seeking a grant to cover the cost.

Again, as I said upthread, ask the council for help and consider asking others who may be able to offer help. Bioogy students at a local school or college might be interested as a practical mini project. Students could at least help you with the technology if neither you nor your fellow trustees feel up to it. Always a good idea to reach out and get the community involved.

And you're right. As a trustee you can't just go ahead without the BNG. You would be putting your own position in jeopardy.

Good luck with this. I'd be interested to hear what you find. In the end the net gain might come from some spring bulbs, a few planters containing nectar rich plants and a compost bin for the hall's kitchen waste if you don't already have one or indeed, as you said, some planting off-site.

Lathyrus3 Mon 23-Mar-26 22:46:32

I had a short conversation with a relative involved in planning applications.

He thinks you will have to do a plan but that it should be possible to complete that yourselves with online guidance and hopefully some support from the local authority as to what they are looking for.

If your LA is supportive the net gain doesn’t have to be in the same area as the work. For example you could plant trees/shrubs or make a wildflower meadow elsewhere on the village hall site or even elsewhere in the village - new planting or enhancing an existing site - churchyard, playing field, verges etc.

That will cost money of course but would benefit the village so maybe local people may get be willing to contribute a bit if they can see the gain.

I still think it’s a case of not what the diversity plan was intended for and it will need a rethink in future as more of this kind of problem comes to light.

Personally I wouldn’t be tempted by a just go ahead and do it approach, especially n the role of Trustees😱

Allira Mon 23-Mar-26 22:35:37

And tell them you are not going to pay that extortionate amount, you are a charity and can draw your own plan and their demands are endangering the safety of the users of the hall.
What exactly are they asking for that costs £1,500? They are trying to justify their existence.

Path, railing, drive. Dandelions. A school child could draw that.

Allira Mon 23-Mar-26 22:29:25

Plant some dandelions along the inside edge of the path!
That should keep them happy, apparently dandelions are excellent for encouraging wildlife and are crucial for bees, butterflies etc. Better than many other flowers.

Luckygirl3 Mon 23-Mar-26 22:20:37

All BNG requires is a net gain of 10%. If the verge in this case is not believed to have much biodiversity then there won’t be much to do to increase it by 10%, will it?

How can we create that net gain? We are not being asked to do this - we are simply being told it will cost us £1500.

There is no scope for wildlife to exist on the bit that is verge because it is just mud churned up by tyres.

FranP Mon 23-Mar-26 22:06:57

Who planted the grass verge? Is it really a green area or just some weeds along the edge? Think he is being a bit zealous.

Could you widen the doorway end and put up a rail there to start with as a smaller project and paint the edge of the car park?

Jackiest Mon 23-Mar-26 08:52:38

Could you do 23 square meters now and then wait a bit and do the rest later.

Suzieque66 Mon 23-Mar-26 07:59:40

Can you reach the area you need by entering into the back door ?

Sueinkent Sun 22-Mar-26 22:05:25

Luckygirl3

We have not made the application yet - a planning guy visited to advise (free).

I think we will have to bide our time and hope no-one gets mown down during the dark nights.

Make sure the local council are aware of the risk of this happening and that they are likely to be held responsible given your request,

Allira Sun 22-Mar-26 20:54:53

hold
build

Allira Sun 22-Mar-26 20:53:49

sundowngirl

sarahcyn

Biodiversity is absolutely crucial and the point of the policy is to make sure that we don't pave over the whole country inch by inch. We are all in favour of it but the people who process the system should do their job without extra fees.
Having said that...how much over 25m2 are you? Could you possibly narrow or shorten the path a little so that it comes under the limit? Then just plant a couple of butterfly friendly buddleias, and make sure there is a little undisturbed patch of nettles somewhere on the site, and you've done your bit for everyone.

But the powers that be are happy to build on the green belt to reach their house building targets. No worries about the wildlife, insects, birds etc then, even though they could build on brown field sites which takes more effort

But the powers that be are happy to build on the green belt to reach their house building targets. No worries about the wildlife, insects, birds etc then, even though they could build on brown field sites which takes more effort

I'm amazed that the Government has a target to hold 1.5 million homes (which will need associated infeastructure) and proposals are going ahead by our Council for hundreds of homes on ecologically sensitive land, yet another Council is making a charitable Trust jump through expensive hoops before they are allowed to construct a path!!

sundowngirl Sun 22-Mar-26 20:49:06

sarahcyn

Biodiversity is absolutely crucial and the point of the policy is to make sure that we don't pave over the whole country inch by inch. We are all in favour of it but the people who process the system should do their job without extra fees.
Having said that...how much over 25m2 are you? Could you possibly narrow or shorten the path a little so that it comes under the limit? Then just plant a couple of butterfly friendly buddleias, and make sure there is a little undisturbed patch of nettles somewhere on the site, and you've done your bit for everyone.

But the powers that be are happy to build on the green belt to reach their house building targets. No worries about the wildlife, insects, birds etc then, even though they could build on brown field sites which takes more effort

valdavi Sun 22-Mar-26 18:29:46

sarahcyn

Biodiversity is absolutely crucial and the point of the policy is to make sure that we don't pave over the whole country inch by inch. We are all in favour of it but the people who process the system should do their job without extra fees.
Having said that...how much over 25m2 are you? Could you possibly narrow or shorten the path a little so that it comes under the limit? Then just plant a couple of butterfly friendly buddleias, and make sure there is a little undisturbed patch of nettles somewhere on the site, and you've done your bit for everyone.

This.

Graphite Sun 22-Mar-26 18:10:58

As it's an existing driveway, that isn't a 'habitat'

OP clears states, The path will cover part existing tarmac and part verge. There will be biodiversity in the verge.

BNG does not apply only to new developments. The rules apply broadly to most types of development that require planning, including some brownfield projects and smaller schemes.

Nor is it petty bureaucracy. It’s law meant specifically to protect our environment.

While 25 metres may seems a small area to some, it is five times the amenity space required for 1-2 person dwellings in London and the same as apartment buildings elsewhere. For a 2 bedroom new-build, the size of garden required is usually 40-50 sq m. While most domestic dwellings are exempt from mandatory BNG requirements, think what would happen to biodiversity if everybody decided to concrete over their green space or cover it in plastic grass.

Just one square metre of natural land can host 20 to 40 plant species and dozens of species of insects and other arthropods. Removing that land creates "sterile" environments that lack the insects, worms, and seeds that ground-feeding birds need to survive. Worms are a crucial part of the diet of foxes too. So while the verge might appear to lack biodiversity it may host and be supporting a variety of wildlife.

All BNG requires is a net gain of 10%. If the verge in this case is not believed to have much biodiversity then there won’t be much to do to increase it by 10%, will it?

Our own community hall area has become a more pleasant place to visit since this legislation, as every piece of hard landscaping since has required compensating changes to meet BNG requirements. More dedicated parking spaces for people with disabilities, spaces for charging electric vehicles and overnight camping for RVs, a children’s play area, slides, swings and mini-cycle track, a MUGA installation, basketball, table tennis, fitness machines. All deemed necessary to meet the needs of the community but we can’t keep concreting over green space for our own physical needs and entertainment without compensatory biodiversity projects.

To that end, we now have a small woodland, a wildflower meadow, a wildlife pond, planters, bird-feeders, beehives and new trees. The latter were sponsored by local families with young children and tagged with their names. Now it’s an annual event for the growing child to be photographed by its growing tree.

All these projects, including the BNG surveys, were funded by local grants. Footfall has increased as a result of these changes, so there are now more bookings for the hall as well as the various clubs and activities that take place regularly there. More people attend our weekly coffee mornings and lunch club for older people as they now take the time to explore and enjoy the grounds which prior to this were mostly football pitches (never all used at the same time and two remain) and some hedgerow. Now it serves a variety of sports and children’s activities as well as quieter spaces alive with green growth and wildlife.

The particular hall subject to this enquiry may not have that kind of space but surely there is enough for a few enhancements that would make up the 10% BNG gain required.

Maremia Sun 22-Mar-26 17:29:41

Can you make a 'health and safety' case for going ahead, or disability access?

Allira Sun 22-Mar-26 17:19:49

NotSpaghetti

DrWatson I thought we knew there was a strip of land involved apart from the actual drive - and that it was more than 25m²?

I understood it was a narrow grass verge alongside the drive and the aim is to turn this into a path for pedestrians, with a rail between it and the drive for safety reasons.

Really, these people are creating problems where there should be none. Mountains and molehills come to mind.

I take it no moles would be disturbed in the creation of this path, Luckygirl!

sarahcyn Sun 22-Mar-26 15:58:37

Biodiversity is absolutely crucial and the point of the policy is to make sure that we don't pave over the whole country inch by inch. We are all in favour of it but the people who process the system should do their job without extra fees.
Having said that...how much over 25m2 are you? Could you possibly narrow or shorten the path a little so that it comes under the limit? Then just plant a couple of butterfly friendly buddleias, and make sure there is a little undisturbed patch of nettles somewhere on the site, and you've done your bit for everyone.

sarahcyn Sun 22-Mar-26 15:54:36

When I see the fees required to make applications like this, I have to ask myself - don't these people get paid a salary????? Why do we always have to pay them extra to do their job?

NotSpaghetti Sun 22-Mar-26 15:23:47

DrWatson I thought we knew there was a strip of land involved apart from the actual drive - and that it was more than 25m²?