British

Chestnut

Religion shouldn't infiltrate the Police force or any other institution, and why should we need to understand one faith over any other? That's a question that needs answering.

So no organisation or institution should acknowledge different religious beliefs amongst their staff? No leave for specific religious festivals, no allowing Jewish staff to leave early on Fridays in winter , no wearing of crucifixes, Stars of David. No turbans or headscarfs?No accommodation for different funeral customs ? For the general public, may be the coroners’’ courts shouldn’t fast track its processes to facilitate Jewish/ Moslem burial requirements ? Hospitals shouldn’t have chaplains of different faiths for staff and patients.

Fallingstar

I imagine is voluntary and just for a day, is fine for those fasting to eat before sun up and after sun down so anyone doing this won’t faint away.
Is obvs an initiative to raise awareness of Ramadan and Islam more generally, but not sure it will achieve much except in serving as click bait on forums like this and so being counter productive.
In London near us the local Mosque has open days and invites all the community in to see what a mosque looks like and they operate a collection point for local food banks and have been running free initiatives for all children in a park with games and a bouncy castle. Quite often local Imams, Rabbis, and CofE Reverends get together and organise community projects.
But then these stories don’t get publicised.

You could see opening the mosque and having play areas as another very soft way of recruiting into the religion. JWs and Mormons go door-knocking, while this offers even children a way to become familiar with the religion. I see no difference.

Tuliptree

Chestnut

Religion shouldn't infiltrate the Police force or any other institution, and why should we need to understand one faith over any other? That's a question that needs answering.

So no organisation or institution should acknowledge different religious beliefs amongst their staff? No leave for specific religious festivals, no allowing Jewish staff to leave early on Fridays in winter , no wearing of crucifixes, Stars of David. No turbans or headscarfs?No accommodation for different funeral customs ? For the general public, may be the coroners’’ courts shouldn’t fast track its processes to facilitate Jewish/ Moslem burial requirements ? Hospitals shouldn’t have chaplains of different faiths for staff and patients.

That's going over the top. Anyone can have days off for religious reasons if it's part of their annual leave. They can wear whatever is permitted within their organisation if it doesn't interfere with any uniform or movement requirements. Death and burial is another matter altogether.

So why do we need to understand one faith over any other?

Lots of British people are Muslims.

Basgetti

Lots of British people are Muslims.

Approximately 6-6.5% of Britain citizens are Muslim.

Source -Google

Chestnut

Religion shouldn't infiltrate the Police force or any other institution, and why should we need to understand one faith over any other? That's a question that needs answering.

...and why should we need to understand one faith over any other?

Possibly because there is a misunderstanding of the Muslim faith by some which does not exist in relation to the Christian faith? I don't know that, I'm just guessing.

However, as with the Christian faith - there are 'Conservative' Muslims and then there are the more progressive Muslims so I'm not sure how useful these initiatives are in the long run.

Religion shouldn't infiltrate the Police force or any other institution...

I agree. But it does. Our education system allows faith schools. Although there's those who will fiercely oppose this view - what can be more discriminating and divisive than schooling children based on the tenets of their faith?

I believe that religion should be an entirely private matter in a multi-faith society. But then, I'm an atheist, so that figures.

Tim Rogers, branch secretary of the West Mids Police Federation took part in event and made the following comment:
“Taking part in the Ramadan Experience gives a real moment of reflection. You feel the hunger and the tiredness through the day, but you also know that when the sun sets there will be a meal waiting and people to share it with.

“That is a reminder that many people around the world live with that same hunger but without the certainty of when their next meal will come. It brings a real sense of gratitude and perspective.”

What a pity that some of us see the event in such negative terms.

It’s politically correct claptrap from Tim Rogers, who wants tired and hungry police officers working on their case?
Religion of any kind should be kept out of policing.

Oreo

It’s politically correct claptrap from Tim Rogers, who wants tired and hungry police officers working on their case?
Religion of any kind should be kept out of policing.

I agree. If they want to prove a point then why aren't they fasting on Ash Wednesday seeing that 45% of the population are Christian? It seems more appropriate that we should all be made aware of Lent.

It’s not about understanding one faith over another but about understanding all faiths. That doesn’t mean necessarily accepting or agreeing with different beliefs but understanding. So for example if a Jewish person leaves a meeting early on a Friday in winter, I understand why

Oreo

It’s politically correct claptrap from Tim Rogers, who wants tired and hungry police officers working on their case?
Religion of any kind should be kept out of policing.

Evidence please if tired and hungry policemen? There isn’t any is there?

It’s what Tim Rogers says.

Quoted in the post above by Foxie48

Oreo

Quoted in the post above by Foxie48

This is one person’s view. It is hardly evidence of a failure in policing. Plus of course, police are used to working long hours in emergencies doing regular overtime so are hardly frail little people tottering around unable to cope

Several years ago, I took a WEA course on Islam for no other reason that I wanted to understand more about the faith and particularly about the faith in daily practice. How, for example, do surgeons and any other profession cope with fasting where concentration and safety are key?

This is how is works:

Starting the Fast: Workers must begin the day with the intention to fast. You cannot pre-emptively decide to skip a fast at dawn simply because you have a hard shift ahead, unless you are already chronically ill or facing unavoidable severe conditions.

Real-time Hardship: If during the workday a worker experiences dangerous exhaustion, severe dehydration, dizziness, or a severe drop in concentration that threatens safety (such as operating heavy machinery, driving public transport, or performing surgery), Islamic rulings permit breaking the fast.

Making Up Fasts: Any fast broken due to occupational danger or necessity must be made up (qada') day-for-day later in the year when conditions are easier, such as during shorter winter days.

Graphite All you are doing is highlighting how dangerous fasting is when someone is at work. People driving buses, trains or any mechanical equipment should not be fasting full stop. What about someone operating a huge crane whilst involved in building something massive like the London Underground? There are many thousands of jobs involving dangerous equipment. I daren't even think that airline pilots fast. Surely not.

No, fasting should be done on a day off when you are safely at home or in your own time, unless your job is office based or similar. A person might have a medical condition which suddenly strikes when their blood sugar drops, who knows?

Chestnut

Graphite All you are doing is highlighting how dangerous fasting is when someone is at work. People driving buses, trains or any mechanical equipment should not be fasting full stop. What about someone operating a huge crane whilst involved in building something massive like the London Underground? There are many thousands of jobs involving dangerous equipment. I daren't even think that airline pilots fast. Surely not.

No, fasting should be done on a day off when you are safely at home or in your own time, unless your job is office based or similar. A person might have a medical condition which suddenly strikes when their blood sugar drops, who knows?

I’m still waiting for evidence. I do do wonder why it’s not forthcoming .

Chestnut

Graphite All you are doing is highlighting how dangerous fasting is when someone is at work. People driving buses, trains or any mechanical equipment should not be fasting full stop. What about someone operating a huge crane whilst involved in building something massive like the London Underground? There are many thousands of jobs involving dangerous equipment. I daren't even think that airline pilots fast. Surely not.

No, fasting should be done on a day off when you are safely at home or in your own time, unless your job is office based or similar. A person might have a medical condition which suddenly strikes when their blood sugar drops, who knows?

Nobody doing certain jobs should fast all day until sundown, and that includes Police and all emergency services as well as others.
In any case, in my view fasting is a preposterous notion made up by men in the past as part of nonsensical sets of rules around ‘religion’ designed to control.
As if any God wanted humans to do this silly thing.

I couldn’t be less religious if I tried but I wouldn’t call fasting by Moslems. Jews, Hindus, Orthodox Christians, Buddhists etc preposterous.

Tuliptree

Chestnut

Graphite All you are doing is highlighting how dangerous fasting is when someone is at work. People driving buses, trains or any mechanical equipment should not be fasting full stop. What about someone operating a huge crane whilst involved in building something massive like the London Underground? There are many thousands of jobs involving dangerous equipment. I daren't even think that airline pilots fast. Surely not.

No, fasting should be done on a day off when you are safely at home or in your own time, unless your job is office based or similar. A person might have a medical condition which suddenly strikes when their blood sugar drops, who knows?

I’m still waiting for evidence. I do do wonder why it’s not forthcoming .

Evidence of what? People have medical conditions, that's a fact. People drive dangerous equipment and need to be alert. That's a fact. What exactly do you want?

Oreo

Chestnut

Graphite All you are doing is highlighting how dangerous fasting is when someone is at work. People driving buses, trains or any mechanical equipment should not be fasting full stop. What about someone operating a huge crane whilst involved in building something massive like the London Underground? There are many thousands of jobs involving dangerous equipment. I daren't even think that airline pilots fast. Surely not.

No, fasting should be done on a day off when you are safely at home or in your own time, unless your job is office based or similar. A person might have a medical condition which suddenly strikes when their blood sugar drops, who knows?

Nobody doing certain jobs should fast all day until sundown, and that includes Police and all emergency services as well as others.
In any case, in my view fasting is a preposterous notion made up by men in the past as part of nonsensical sets of rules around ‘religion’ designed to control.
As if any God wanted humans to do this silly thing.

I absolutely agree with you 👏👏👏👏👏

Evidence that people fasting for religious reasons are causing harm to themselves / others and not doing their jobs properly.

Headaches, irritability and lack of concentration, brain fog and low mood and hunger pangs often arises from all day fasting according to general info on the Internet.
While long term health is unlikely to be compromised even people fasting all day for one day will have negative effects.
Is this what you want for our emergency services? I also would prefer not to be treated by anyone in the NHS who fasts.

Someone who has practised the Muslim faith for years understands their own body and what is needs to get through the day just as most adults do.

People from all faiths and walks of life undertake fasting diets.
The late Dr Michael Mosley used to advocate them as well as time-restricted diets to give the digestive system a break and control blood sugar.

Then human body was designed to withstand sustained periods of famine and feast and can adapt to it.

As Tuliptree says, where's the evidence that people are underperforming? You are more likely to be on a bus or train that crashes because someone who overeats/has a bad diet had had a coronary or stroke at the controls.

Also apparently more traffic accidents occur late afternoon due to low blood sugars.