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Are we repeating the "great depression" of the 1920's?
(44 Posts)I look around now and see a lot of similarities in my view, to that time , but in a modern version. So looking back there were all those things like dancing for 24 hours , and going looking for work and unrest and people having difficult times with the rise of such as Hitler and Mosley etc, etc.
The parallels are there to see now. Instead of 24 hour dances, we have people supposedly racing round the world (what is the point , using up resources for no good reasons, and not learning about the lives and countries that you visit but just grabbing what you can?!) Or so called celebrities going off to visit far flung places that the tv people are paying for. (Dont include things like Micheal Palin s good trips or the great David Attenborough journeys and wildlife things)
Then I am really fed up to the back teeth with the endless repeats on tv of the same boring things such as cooking shows, which are not there to give you good ideas and tips to save money and cook yourself but setting people up in endless competitions, where the ingredients are usually things that you are not likely to have in your own cupboards, or give you any inspiration. Endless repeats of boring programmes or things that if they are not your interest , are about as worth watching as paint drying. So, we have the Sewing Bee, and now for heavens sake a Sandcastle building competition. Nothing wrong with any of these things if they appeal to you, but again they all seem to be done on the basis of pitting people against each other, whether in groups or individually, and with emphasis on spending a lot of money etc. We need to be supporting sustainable and sensible ways of living, and good ideas on restyling your own clothes, or how to use second hand things in a practical way, and tips on sharing things, whether packets of seeds or having swap shops.
In real life there are quite a few good ideas happening, in local groups. So these very good pop up days , where you can take things to be mended by experts so that you can reuse and not waste things, recycling banks, gardening groups where you can swap plants and for many with small gardens these days, sharing a packet of seeds and swapping , so waste not want not. I have never been particularly bothered about fashion, not having the money to spend on clothes that were often very pretty , but not practical and man made fibres. When bringing up a family having an up to date wardrobe was way down the list of importance. I would more notice what was fashionable and look to see which of my things were now back in fashion and wear them again.
So, far worse than these things, in my opinion, is the world situation . Look at the similarities, instead of Hitler and Mosley, we have Trump and Farage! With available news every 5 minutes . we are endlessly shown how these narcisistic and dangerous people behave. The appalling Taliban ruling in Afganistan , where womens lives are getting worse by the day, and both politicians and press deliberately setting groups of people against each other for cheap and dangerous scoring points. When we read of NHS staff facing violence and needing security staff , when their role is to help people in need, and the rise in racist attacks both verbal and physical, the attention that Farage is given , where he incites the worst in people to put the blame for everything onto immigrants etc, is definitely a modern day match for Mosley.
Personally I feel much of the rot started with Thatcher , with her encouragement for selfishness and take everything you can. So with the sale of council houses, and thinking what would get her votes, it encouraged people to think only of themselves and an attitude of " what can I grab, and to hell with everyone else"
There are many people today doing sterling work, giving time and energy to good ideas such as retired people giving their time and expertise to mending things, and running food banks etc. Providing people with help with the endless government forms , running clubs and litter picking. Yet these things are seen as only fit for "and finally - " items at the end of the news. I would say that at least 90% of the news at the moment is totally doom and gloom, which is made worse by it being continually repeated on the hour so that you are depressed and inundated by the appalling situations , many of which you are unable to do anything much about as an individual. I do not bury my head in the sand, and follow the news and discussions of what is happening both here and abroad, but I now, do not watch any news after 6pm, as it is all so depressing and I would find that I would go to bed and think of all these things, both when I got into bed, and when I wake up in pain, in the middle of the night, that does not help at all.
I am very grateful for GN, as there is a great variety of things to read about and comment on, and when you hear of the worst of behaviour everywhere and the emphasis on the dreadful, which does not necessarily tell the truth, GN gives a more positive and balanced view. Only yesterday I heard a very good programme talking about the fact that there were statistics to show that there were lower levels in crimes in various categories, yet the press prefer to just talk about the bad areas and not have any balance about the good. The NHS is constantly being held up for poor standards, waiting times and the mistakes made. Yes of course we must do what we can to improve these situations, but why is there so little made of the wonderful things too, such as the way that has been found to be able to make individual vaccines or medication, to improve treatments for rare cancers. The good use of modern communications that allow people with very very rare conditions throughout the world to get together and help each other. The people who, in very dire situations, trialling new drugs, which may help them to have a little longer life or less pain, but which also help others
I have a personal story, where a very dear friend , many years ago, who had two little girls, had severe bad arthritis and had difficulty even walking across the school playground. She then was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia, and was having treatment for this. She went to see her arthritis consultant, and he said "oh you are walking much better, what do you think has helped ? " to which she replied " the leukemia treatment!" and although she sadly died, this connection between her cancer treatment and the arthritis was made and I think she is even in the text books, because something new was found out., so that they were then able to look at this treatment for a totally different illness. The great strides being made in medication, and the good use of computers , that now allow people to communicate with such as eye movements, or electric wheel chairs that allow people to still live a life that they want to. Why is this not given the attention as well as the bad side of things.? Well , it is the old thing that sensationalism sells and they think that we dont want to know about the good things. I disagree and think we need to share every good idea, and encourage good practise. At the moment there is endless news about the drought and dry weather. Having lived abroad I am well aware of saving water at all times never mind just drought times, and seeing drinking water used to wash cars, and leaving hoses running in the street , always annoyed me.
There has been enough warning on climate change, which people like Trump and others choose to ignore or deny, yet still houses are being allowed to be built, with no water butts or good insulation or solar panels. We have to do what we can to improve homes already built, but there should be a law to make all new properties be built to sensible standards for the future. If that was a law that all builders had to abide by, it would benefit everyone that used them, and not let the builders say they couldnt afford to build these houses or other people would under cut them. Good insulation, double or triple glazed windows , not only keeps in heat, but deadens noise too, which is of value too, and if there were waterbutts taking rain from the gutters, it would be another good way of saving water. We have to have the attitude that any small steps that we can each take is worthwhile when multiplied by 1000's of us doing it. In the end we have to look at our grandchildren and at the very least say that we did our best not to waste resources. We cannot let the news make us feel that there is so little we can do as individuals that it is not worth trying.
Ah well I have had my rant and will be interested in the comments made. Time to put the kettle on for a much needed coffee - ranting is thirsty work!
Aveline
sazzl very brave of you to say this on here! I suspect a lot of people around the country entirely agree with you.
Yes I do for a start.
nanna8
We have the welfare state and free health cover now unlike in the 1920s. At least you do, we have to pay for a fair bit of medical help. People’s expectations are much higher, they won’t live in what we would now call hovels and even very poor people seem to have phones ,including those arriving with no proper entry papers. The poor are always with us,as the Bible says, but it is a matter of degree.
Well said 😃
Susieq62
Terribull
The Grapes of Wrath has stayed with me since I read it aged 16.
Have you read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist? Also very relevant to today.
I did have The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist, my son appropriated it before I got a chance to read it, but he voiced the same opinion as you on it. I'll get it back off him sometime.
If ever there was an argument in favour of the need for unions, the various scenarios as presented in The Grapes of Wrath presented an unequivocal one imo.
We have the welfare state and free health cover now unlike in the 1920s. At least you do, we have to pay for a fair bit of medical help. People’s expectations are much higher, they won’t live in what we would now call hovels and even very poor people seem to have phones ,including those arriving with no proper entry papers. The poor are always with us,as the Bible says, but it is a matter of degree.
No nothing remotely like it. Switch off the news
Terribull
The Grapes of Wrath has stayed with me since I read it aged 16.
Have you read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist? Also very relevant to today.
Oreo
We don’t need to celebrate foodbanks and other helpful places for those in need, but have to recognise that they do a useful job and charity isn’t, to my mind, a dirty word.
Cheap supplies from supermarkets are also doing a good job.
It’s only a disunited kingdom from those disgruntled people who wanted to break away from England.
What does standing up for people mean in practical terms?
I agree. Preferable to the workhouse or absolutely nothing.
I think we are, in general, so much better off now than in the 1920’s, in so many ways, better healthcare, better choices of food, so much better birth and infant mortality, better travel opportunities, more opportunities for women, NHS, Welfare State, better housing.
These are tough times for many and for others “lonely” times.
But we have our friends, family and Gransnet.
On that note, I bid you all a goodnight and hopefully a peaceful night and a better day for us all tomorrow. X
WithNobsOnIt
Or a Tome with about 12 Volumes.
I always look forward to what the OP has to say,an inspirational person.
Or a Tome with about 12 Volumes.
sazz1
I'm sorry but I would like to see these 'refugees' deported on arrival. I'm convinced at least 90% of them are economic migrants wanting to share our free benefits, NHS, etc. They are crippling our economy costing millions and some have no respect for our culture or for women. The government has even had to explain what consent is, equality for women, sexual harrasnent, sexual assult,and the age of consent for children. In many cases these things are not crimes in their home country.
When we have thousands homeless, thousands on waiting lists for social housing, schools and NHS overwhelmed and our country trillions of pounds in debt why are we allowing these illegal immigrants to stay?
I'm not racist and treat all people with respect but I've noticed that those welcoming these immigrants change their tune pretty fast when they are housed near them. Definitely NIMBY at work.
We should be housing our homeless in these HMOs, ex army barracks, hotels etc not illegal immigrants
Don’t be sorry I completely agree with you. Well said. 👏👏
In the Great Depression people did not have medical help nor benefits. There were workhouses, so if people did not have homes or food they could work for these, not expect to be given.
But there were food and clothing banks of a sort run mostly by churches.
Gratitude was a thing, not expectation or pickiness for what is offered, or entitlement.
People who found something wrong got off their behinds and tried to do something, not expecting the mythical "someone" to deal with.
Thanks Aveline I'm sure they do.
sazzl very brave of you to say this on here! I suspect a lot of people around the country entirely agree with you.
I'm sorry but I would like to see these 'refugees' deported on arrival. I'm convinced at least 90% of them are economic migrants wanting to share our free benefits, NHS, etc. They are crippling our economy costing millions and some have no respect for our culture or for women. The government has even had to explain what consent is, equality for women, sexual harrasnent, sexual assult,and the age of consent for children. In many cases these things are not crimes in their home country.
When we have thousands homeless, thousands on waiting lists for social housing, schools and NHS overwhelmed and our country trillions of pounds in debt why are we allowing these illegal immigrants to stay?
I'm not racist and treat all people with respect but I've noticed that those welcoming these immigrants change their tune pretty fast when they are housed near them. Definitely NIMBY at work.
We should be housing our homeless in these HMOs, ex army barracks, hotels etc not illegal immigrants
Having read The Grapes of Wrath quite recently set during Great Depression of the 1930s what an eye opener that was to me, at any rate, who didn't know much about the subject. To find out how badly the Dust Bowl Farmers of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Tennessee among other states were affected. I think we are a long way from plummeting down to those depths. Farming communities having had their farms/smallholdings repossessed by unscrupulous banks as their crops failed facing year on year of droughts, makes our current one look infinitesimal. Great swathes of those without homes went west to California with the hope of finding work harvesting crops, grapes in particular. They were massively exploited being paid subsistence wages. As more and more arrived resulting in an over supply of labour, so their money dwindled to almost nothing. Certainly not enough to feed themselves. Rampant malnutrition and disease spread through their encampments. There wasn't any welfare, hardly anything in respect of a support system. Quite honestly there have been times during the 20th century when the poorer sections of society didn't fare much better than they did in 19th century Dickensian Britain. We tend to think of the US as reasonably affluent but they, like most places, had and have huge pockets of poverty and the knock on effect of the Wall Street crash and ensuing depression with the rise of fascism in Germany, also borne out of economic hardship resounded throughout most of the world.
There are obviously some analogies that can be made between then and now, but I think times were much harsher then than they are now Although given history repeats itself, a lot of comparisons can be made.
We do live in strange times, it's very hard to reconcile the two extremes publicity hungry 'influencers' and c'lebs who shameless show off their extravagant life styles, not to mention the staggering wealth of the few, Musk, Zukerberg, Bezos and their respective vast corporations whose tax liabilities aren't commensurate with their accrued billions, at a time when half the world is either starving or living under constant bombardment. Because we live in such a media driven society now the showcasing of wealth which is pretty constant, somehow emphasizes the dichotomy between the two. I do think there's a constant element of Nero fiddling away while Rome burns it's hard not to end up with that opinion at times.
fancythat
I am surprised too, with new houses not being built with all sorts.
Comes down to cost I suppose.
Mind you, I have not appreciated the large amount of insulation we have in the hot weather lately. A few people say that that keeps heat in when it is very hot.
A neighbour who works in construction said just the same, that our homes are over insulated. Air con is expensive to install, run and maintain for many people too. He says remote control metal shutters on the outside of our windows would reflect the sun and keep rooms cooler with zero cost.
Well said, I agree with everything you've written. There do not appear to be politicians of any persuasion in the UK who actually know how to put things right. Down here in Thanet there are hundreds of new houses being built, alongside shortages of water (turned off in Herne Bay and parts of Whitstable), no NHS dentists, no doctors or hospital appointments - I could go on and on. It is madness, and pure greed on the part of property developers and their pals in local councils and in government. Where is the person who can lead the country out of this mess? I thought that Andy Burnham might have an idea, but sadly, at the moment, he appears to be just like the rest of them. He admitted today that there is not enough money to house all the rough sleepers. It is so depressing!
Is this a book
I agree, there is much wrong around the whole world...and I too have wondered if what people 1920s were really thinking about their future and did any have any real sense of the impending doom of the Depression, WWII and the Cold War, etc etc.... I (Canadian) appreciate hearing the POV of people in the UK (and beyond) through GN...I would like to recommend Substack and Fix the News...to other GNers who feel woeful about what we see and hear so often. These two websites focus on reporting on stories/events/changes seldom seen elsewhere and it's amazing to me to hear about so many wonderful advances everywhere. They are free. Enjoy.
Very well put madeleine45 My thoughts exactly 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
No, UK today is nothing like the Great Depression which happened in USA in the 1930s. A did 24 hour dance marathons.
Trump is NOT a Hitler nor is Farage a Mosely.
You wrote "*we have people supposedly racing round the world (what is the point , using up resources for no good reasons, and not learning about the lives and countries that you visit but just grabbing what you can?!) Or so called celebrities going off to visit far flung places that the tv people are paying for.Then I am really fed up to the back teeth with the endless repeats on tv of the same boring things such as cooking shows, .... Sewing Bee*. "
None of those are remotely reminiscent of poverty and deprivation 100 years ago. They are all examples of the very opposite; an affluent indolent society that takes universal leisure and effortless entertainment for granted.
Oreo
greyfur16
Foodbanks? It's embarassing.
Standing up I suppose means caring, wishing to share resources more equally. Not supporting the gig economy, not stamping on people who are already in the gutter.Caring isn’t doing anything practical and who is stamping on anyone?
I do practical things which I won't go into here. Foodbanks were supposed to be a temporary and short term thing. Absolutely wrong that they should even exist in the UK.
People at the top, billionaires stamp on the little people at the bottom. crabs in a bucket, Thanks to Thatcher.
I don't think we are repeating the depression, but there are some similarities. The gap between rich and poor is normalised - ok we don't have scullery maids working 16 hour days for people who spend their days looking for things to do, but we do have millions of full-time workers who need benefits to live on having to pay tax, whilst others pay in nothing but benefit from living in a wealthy country.
We are seeing the rise of the Far Right, marginalising groups such as the disabled and immigrants, and we've seen where that can lead.
Having food banks is, in itself, a good thing, but not when they are needed because of Austerity cutbacks that took from the poor.
We have longer and arguably better education (very little illiteracy, for instance) but jobs require far higher levels of expertise than many have, and there are huge discrepancies in attainment that can't be explained by natural differences in intelligence. Exam results in London (which benefited from huge injections of cash by Tony Blair) are very high compared to other areas, and there are differences in attainment between different ethnic groups, social classes and sexes.
We have universal free health care, but many people struggle to get appointments, and there are huge queues in A&E and to see consultants, whilst those willing to pay go to the front of those queues.
The housing situation is atrocious, with landlords charging huge sums to renters so they can pay their mortgages. Those who don't have mortgages on the houses they rent out can't claim they 'need' so much in rent, yet they still talk about 'market rents', which just means they all charge as much as they can get away with. Either way, taxpayers' money is given to landlords in the form of benefit top-ups, and some of that goes to people who bought council houses that were built to ensure that working people had decent homes at a reasonable price.
Those sorts of skewing the system towards the 'haves' is similar to the 20s, but at least we have a welfare system, and there is less sexism, homophobia and racism. We still have trades unions and employment laws that stop at least some of the exploitation that is rife when 'human nature' is allowed to have its way. Children can't be beaten at school, even though they can be at home in England and NI. Rape in marriage is illegal, and women don't need a man to sign for financial credit any more - that sort of thing has improved immeasurably.
Great Depression? No.
Not while many still go on foreign holidays, latest phones etc etc.
Wars - always been wars and rumours of wars.
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