Horsemeat

You are quite right Nightowl.

I was just talking about the extremes nightowl and yes, raw meat has some advantages I think in terms of vitamins. Not much vitamin c in dried meat probably. But on the other hand it wears out your teeth
I went to an interesting talk on scott and vitamin c. Apparently while Nelson knew that citrus juice prevented scurvy and used it to great effect, Scott believed that it did not and rations contained only cereals, fats, dried meat.
Apparently at some stage post nelson the british navy changed its supply of lime juice to the west indies and the limes were not high in vitamin c. So they thought the theory was wrong. Not long after ascorbic acid was isolated as a chemical and its scurvy preventing qualities nailed down, using experiments on guinea pigs - fortunately because guinea pigs are like us and don't make their own. Most mammals do.

And I did not disagree with you about there being more to nutrition than meat, nightowl. I only pointed out that it was possible to live healthily on mainly meat (when I say meat, I include fish). And jess pointed out that although it is possible to live on a vegetarian diet, it's harder (less efficient) to get all the nutrients one needs.

Grit from stoneground flour wore out teeth as well (modern flours are better sifted so notnsuch a problem nowadays), and foods high in carbohydrates cause more dental caries than meat.

Cooking doesn't destroy all the vitamin C in meat and it does make the food easier to digest. That's why it caught on . Cooked carrots are better for you than raw ones – heat gives you access to nutrients more easily sometimes.

I didn't know that about guinea pigs.

I know you were Jess and both extremes bring their own challenges. I was only debating one small point with Bags - it's not a big issue. I guess we evolved to eat a bit of everything. It's just that we have come so far from the life/ diet we are designed to have that it's hard to strike a balance. I'll carry on with my grass and leave you and Bags to your raw steaks. None of us will have any teeth left

But raw carrots are sooooo nice Bags. Anyway, back to horsemeat ....

We were not 'designed' for any diet. We evolved by adapting to what was available.

It isn't hard to strike a balance! It's never been easier! Good grief!!!!!!

Joking Bags. Good grief indeed.

I didn't mean strike a nutritional balance. More a considered and ethical balance.

Phew! I was wondering what was difficult about having access to virtually every kind of food there is!

The 'ethics' of food is a very modern thing caused, for the most part, I think, by its ready availability in modern times, at least in western countries. Whe what you ate was whatever you could find, or raise yourself, I don't think food ethics bothered people much. Which, for me, just goes to show that in spite of all our moaning about the world going to the dogs, things have actually improved in recent times for human beings.

I think that's true Bags but I also think the 'ethics' of food has become a consideration because of the very unethical (IMO of course) manner in which animals are farmed and treated. My grandfather was a farmer who reared and killed his own livestock. They were well cared for and allowed to live in a way that met their specific needs. They were killed quickly without a long stressful journey to an abattoir where they would be killed on an industrial scale. We have come so far from that in my lifetime that my choices, and those of many others have been affected.

Anyway, off out with DGS now

Seems to me the real problem here is that some supplier (at the moment looks like a French firm) has legitimately bought horsemeat from a properly licensed abattoir in Rumania which they have then sold on to British food processors as beef. Or British food processors have knowingly bought it as horse and sold it as beef. Eating horse isn't a problem in itself. Someone, somewhere, is making a profit by misrepresentation.

Lilygran The problem seems to be discovering who is making a large and fraudulent profit. Not only did Romanian horsemeat go first to France and then to Luxembourg before being shipped to the UK in the form of ready meals, but two agents were involved in the process. One was in Cyprus and that one sub-contracted the job of supplying the meat for these meals to another agent in another country – hardly surprisingly, I have forgotten which country, but it wasn't Romania, France or Luxembourg. It's virtually impossible to trace who did what and, more importantly perhaps, who knew what.

Thank you nightowl for your post about how animals are reared, treated and killed. This is what's important to me too. I wish it was more important to those who run the industries and companies that produce our food.

I agree. Someone, somewhere has done something that must be illegal and also, presumably, profitable. Ah, the joys of globalisation! And British suppliers are required to meet the highest welfare and hygiene standards (quite right, too) so the scaly bastards people we buy our food from put them out of business and buy from whoever is cheapest!

nightowl and daisy – some animals. Not all farming is cruel. I do not like the cruel practices either, which is why I'm a supported of the organisation Compassion in World Farming. Check it out. You might like it too.

And I agree with lily. Happy to eat horsemeat, but not to be told it is beef.

I wonder if this will bring about a change in peoples attitiude to eating horsemeat, given that a lot of people have been eating it without realising they were doing so? I don't think I could eat it myself but would certainly prefer horses staying in this country for slaughter rather than being transported long distances.

I ate some spaghetti bolog...neighs. It gave me the trots but I'm in a stable condition now.
Seriously though, let this be a warning to us all. Cheap food is not going to be wholesome, so best to cook from scratch wherever possible using local ingredients. When I hear the words "food industry" my blood runs cold.
My local butcher has a sign outside his shop: "100% beef, no horsing around".
Says it all!

I agree Lily and Bags, eating horse isn't really a problem in itself but consumers being told that horse is cow is definitely a 'no no'. Aassuming it can be proved that the horsemeat is from a licensed abattoir couldn't the retailers involved put large stickers on the offending items, clearly stating 'Contains horsemeat' and then sell them at a reduced price? Result - no dumped lasagnes etc, and lots of cheap dinners for people who aren't averse to a bit of horse. Serving suggestion... add raw carrots and garnish with sugar lumps...

Bags, yes, I think Compassion in World Farming is doing all it can. I subscribe to their emails. They sent one earlier today about the current practice of sending live bullocks to Libya, by sea, to be slaughtered when they get there. If there is a conflict between profit and welfare, the choice will all too often be for profit. This is slightly 'off-topic' - I was just trying to point out that other animals beside horses are involved.

How on earth can meat go through so many countries, agents and processors and be sold a dirt cheap prices and still make a profit? I think the poor Rumanians must have paid to have the animals taken away!