Veganism........

Vegetarians are challenged at times - my sister used to be told 'but I bet you wear leather shoes!' as a response to her non-meat & fish eating.

I think the problem sometimes for genuine veg/vegans is that we all know 'fairweather veggies' .... those who think the odd bit of fish or chicken are really small vegetables.

When I was helping to organise a charity lunch one of the participants spent the weeks of preparation going on and on about how she needed to be catered for - I was then somewhat surprised to see her eating a prawn sandwich.

Good question bags and if they do keep pets, what do they feed them on?

Eating is so integral to our sense of self, substances that we ingest into our bodies and that keep us alive. I would never challenge someone's food choices, but as with anything when I meet someone who differs from the majority, I will always be interested in their choices and if it is appropriate ask them about them.

Asking questions is not necessarily a challenge, most of the time it is just friendly interest. Ill-mannered people one just ignores.

Good question, anno, about unfertilised eggs. I wonder about that too. Perhaps people who choose to be vegan don't think human animals should 'keep' chicken animals to produce eggs to eat, however happy and contented and well-looked after the chickens are.

Do human vegans keep pets at all?

Apology taken in the way it seems to have been meant. (Well, by me anyway!)

I do think however that using a phrase like "Quite surprised I'm put in a position of defending my position in these enlightened times" was perhaps not the best way of putting it.

On another note, you are right about the "organic" label. I could not sell my lamb as organic, because I used some products that I felt were in the animal's best interests, but were not permitted if one wanted to describe the meat as organic.

I agree with riverwalk first paragraph

May I ask "out of interest" squaredog what is the significance of the number of GN members that are vegan?

Sorry Riverwalk........no definitely not. Sorry if I gave that impression. I guess I just wanted to say how tired I am at always being challenged, that's all.

Sorry

Sorry Square Dog if you are careful where you buy, preferably locally, or from a supplier with a reputation to lose or food with a Soil Association certification you are unlikely to be eating meat that does not meet the highest welfare standards.

It is not unknown for Vegan foods to be contaminated with animal products.

Squaredog If you make any kind of statement on GN, you must expect to be challenged, whether you are announcing that you're thinking of becoming a vegan, or simply taking up wearing purple underwear.
No-one has said anything unpleasant or unreasonable to you.
Did you want everyone to simply post variants of 'Jolly good!'?

Squaredog, I know what you mean about feeling challenged. Sometimes I have innocently asked for the veggie option at a large gathering and then been "grilled" by a nearby meat eater about my lifestyle choice.

I think a lot of people are confused by the subject.
My best friend is an animal lover but a meat eater. She says I make her feel guilty by being vegetarian as she could not do it - as she just loves meat too much. (I never comment on her diet- she just feels guilty.) She does loads for animal charities and works tirelessly at a pet rescue centre.

I used to feel guilty when I ate meat so I just stopped. I immediately felt more comfortable with myself but I don't think I could go vegan.
By the way, I am not a sentimental animal lover - I have no pets. I just think they deserve some respect.

I'm a piscetarian and no, I can't justify that except by explaining that I gave up meat eating because it made me feel bloated and I haven't felt that way for almost 30 years. I do eat fish because I like it and because it gives me nutrients that a veggie diet doesn't. What I would like to know is why a vegan won't eat non-fertilised eggs from free-range chickens. That isn't a question of killing anything. The chickens that inhabit my DS's garden seem perfectly contented and are thoroughly spoiled which they repay by producing delicious fresh eggs.

Squaredog you seem to be 'squaring-up' for a fight when, from what I can see, everyone is in agreement with you and showing concern for animals!

My sister has been a strict vegetarian for 25 years, no meat or fish products, and I can see that being vegan would be a 'going the last mile' step.

Don't be so narky!

Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly. I HATE preaching.

But look how an innocent question has been turned round to challenge me. I'm ALWAYS being put in that position. And do you know what? I'm well pissed off with it.

How would YOU feel if I challenged your ethics on eating meat on first meeting you? It happens to me all the time........... This is why is sounds like preaching. How else CAN it sound? No one is happy, believe me, to just let me be. And then they're not happy when I give them my reasons.

I wonder why that could be? Tell me ladies? I'd love to know.........

Organic is not the same thing as Free range. Meat can be bought Organic AND Free Range, but if it's Organic, then that's all it is.

Organically raised chickens on some farms suffer from higher mortality rates than chickens living on antibiotics. It doesn't prevent overcrowding..........

Organically raised cows are often sent to factory-farm feedlots to be fattened prior to slaughter. As long as they are fed organic feed, they are 'organic' cows.

Of course I could go on, but don't really feel this is the place to do so, unless you're interested.

Suffice to say, my reasons are simply kindness and empathy. Could anyone here keep their cat/dog under those conditions? Could anyone here be happy to visit a slaughter house to really see what goes on? (And then eat the produce)

My guilt at supporting the Dairy industry, which in turn, supports the meat industry, gnaws away at me. I don't understand how anyone with any conscience CAN ignore the facts.

Quite surprised I'm put in a position of defending my position in these enlightened times.

I applaud your attitude to your sheep Phoenix, wish all farmers were as caring.
I think meat has become too cheap and too available - at the expense of ourselves and the animals. It used to be a considered purchase and therefore self limiting. Now it is all about quantity. However, I realise that if you are feeding a family on a budget that is the least of your problems.
It is just my personal opinion - I try not to preach, FlicketyB........ there's nothing worse than an evangelic vegan for making one crave a bacon buttie!

I agree rockgran it definitely wouldn't happen overnight, but then no species ever became extinct overnight either1

Flickety totally with you on welfare issues.

I used to keep a small (50 head) flock of sheep. Yes, we produced lambs for meat, but they were given the utmost care and attention right to the end. I refused to sell them at market as I didn't want to risk them being transported god knows how many miles without access to food and water.

Many years ago I met a vegan at a party. Interested in the hows and whys I asked about the problems. For the next 30 minutes I was trapped in a corner while he talked about the problems of getting vitamin B14 (I think) into your diet if you are a vegan. This experience has rather coloured my impression of vegans.

I am concerned about animal welfare so I only buy organic meat and eggs. I never eat chicken in restaurants, rarely pork and generally often eat the vegetarian option when I am eating somewhere where I have no idea where the meat has been sourced.

That's a question that is often asked, Phoenix. I assume it would not happen overnight so I guess the world would adjust.

Can you imagine what would happen if everyone went vegan?

I have been vegetarian for many years (for the animal's benefit not mine). I said I would do it for as long as it didn't affect my health. However, I have recently started eating some fish again as I felt I needed the boost. I think if all meat and fish was guaranteed free range and the animals had some quality of life I would eat meat. I'm not against eating meat, just cruelty in farming. The dairy industry worries me too.
It has been a challenge when travelling but I've managed to be vegetarian without too much trouble. I don't think I could manage vegan as that does require a lot of research and commitment.

I must admit that I've never really understood the vegan thing. I will be "watching" with interest!

I'm sorry if I sounded intolerant squaredog and I've nothng against a discussion of veganism, though like gillybob I am sceptical about the benefits, if any.
A discussion though, isn't the same as you wanting to know who is and who isn't a vegan, and I wondered why you wanted to know. You'veanswered my question - thank you.

At the risk of sounding ignorant squaredog what exactly are the benefits of "going the extra mile" and becoming a vegan? I totally appreciate why someone might be a vegetarian but a vegan??? I am struggling.

That's why I was wondering if this was the right Forum Jane........information is of interest to someone, surely. That's the point of GN, isn't it?
I' m a Gransnetter, and it interests me, so perhaps tolerance for others?

Gillybob, if you go to Viva they have loads a stuff.......

FYI, I'm veggie and preparing to go the extra mile. Maybe. Perhaps. It IS a big step, but a completely logical one.

I am not but my son is. However he is an excellent cook so I don't need to worry.
There is an excellent web site for vegan folk which can easily be found by googling it.