Governments should stop giving healthy eating advice

Rosequartz.....contact your injury lawyers immediately, if it didn't say on the pack 'do not leave to boil while giving your opinions on gransnet' you must have a case!!

I have just eaten the fat on a thick slice of ham! It was delicious.

rosequartz !!!!!!

Nellie I agree with you that the problem is that many people lack the scientific knowledge to fully understand public health advice, and even less the research behind them - that's difficult even when you have a scientific background.

Public health measures in the past have been very successful - we have only to think of the provision of clean water, the discovery of the role and importance of vitamins, the eradication of TB and other infectious diseases, and the reduction in cigarette smoking which happened as a result of Sir Richard Doll's research, and the subsequent advice to the public as well as the prohibition of smoking in public places.

But the dietary advice which has been dished out over the last 30 years is a different ball-game. Scientists are still unravelling the complex biochemical pathways involved in how nutrients are utilised.

As Hilaire Belloc put it
'Scientists who ought to know
Assure us that it must be so.
Oh! Let us never never doubt
What nobody is sure about.'

That is the government's problem - how to give people up-to-date and accurate advice when the evidence is not 100% conclusive.

*vegasmags', the person you heard on R4, was, I think, the American journalist, Michael Pollan, he came up with the mantra that has informed my eating for years 'Eat well, not too much, most of it plants' followed by 'If its made from a plant, eat it. If it is made in a plant, don't'.

He once asked his readers in the USA to suggest other eating rules, which he published in a book called (surprise, surprise) Food Rules. Rules it includes are: ' Do not get your fuel from the same place as your car', 'It is not a food if it is called by the same name in every language' (Big Mac, Pringles, KFC); 'Avoid foods described as 'Lite', 'Low fat' or other similar phrases'; 'Avoid foods containing ingredients you cannot buy in a supermarket'

I think all the government warnings and medical doom merchants far from doing anything to improve our health are actually damaging it. At one end we get people frantically reading lists of ingredients, nutrient analyses and traffic lights and at the other end those who just shove anything in their mouth if it is greasy, sweet and comes ready to eat.

We are losing the ability to enjoy good food, well-cooked, to take sensual pleasure in eating food and sampling flavours, or to appreciate the taste and flavour of good quality food (Rule: 'Pay more, eat less) there is forever that miasma being held over our heads, of is it 'good' for us, is it 'healthy', is it a 'forbidden' or 'naughty food? Whether it is enjoyable, or a pleasure to eat never enters the government/medicos minds.

If the government et al want us to eat well, they should celebrate the joys and pleasures of good quality food, the glories in seasonal eating, the excitement of eating the first fresh-from-the-farm asparagus, of blackberries picked from a hedgerow on a country walk, or even on waste site in a city, of eating something you have grown yourself, like cress grown on paper towel. Sing the praises of food, not its nutritional content.

It's a bit of a catch 22 for any government isn't it. Damned if they do damned if they don't.

I do wish they would stop the letters to parents regarding children's BMI levels. I know from experience this had an effect on my GD when she was only 6/7 and thought she was fat. She ruddy well was not and a lot of parents were hopping mad too. There was a report in a paper this week concerning a poor child who had become anorexic due to one of those letters. Now I am not stupid enough to accept that an overweight child does deserve attention but those letters are really disproportionate and they seriously need reviewing due to the angst they cause parents, usually quite unnecessarily.

I've read a few similar stories too, POGS. What surprises me is that parents actually tell their child what the letter says!

Well POGS I thought of starting a thread this morning entitled 'Research into the bl**ding obvious' after reading in the Telegraph about some researchers in London who have shown that toddlers who sleep less than 10 hours a day consume more calories than toddlers who sleep for longer.
What a surprise!!
Wouldn't it have been surprising if they hadn't consumed more calories?
if toddlers are running around for an extra 2 hours a day, don't they need more calories??

But no. Apparently, the researchers have deemed it wise to advise parents that if their children sleep less than 10 hours a day they are more likely to become obese.

So the poor parents, who not only have to suffer a toddler who doesn't sleep, now have to start worrying about its diet as well as all the other things they have been indoctrinated to worry about

Ana

I think it was the fact her mum shouted "Bloody cheek" aroused her interest and the company she was with started talking about it.. .

What a shame! I wasn't meaning the parents of your GD specifically, POGS, just parents in general.

Back to OP. Dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

I agree that many people lack the scientific background to unravel all the conflicting information, many 'investigative' journalists included!

I am totally with you over the letters from school about weight. DGD was described as overweight, no she wasn't told but it caused deep distress to her mother, even though I had warned her it would happen. How did I know? Well half of our respective families are built like buses, broad of back and square in build, when DS, as an 18 year old and broke his collar bone, all the doctors gathered around his x-rays amazed at the size and bulk of his bones. Watching DGD dance around the house in her leotard with not an ounce of visible excess fat, it is quite clear that she is not by any stretch of the imagination overweight for her build.

I have also told DDiL that she will have the opposite problem with DGS, he inherits his build from the other side of the family, he is tall but has a narrow slight frame and we already know that he borders on the edge of underweight. He is a ball of non-stop energy and has a healthy appetite so none of us are worried, but wait until he starts school and the school medical people get hold of him.

Sympathies Flickety. I've had letters about DD describing her as underheight. This is the girl who was the County X Country champion and swimming ace and who didn't have a single day off school in seven years for illness.

I was very vexed and asked if children who were exceptionally tall received these letters. Of course they didn't.

Haven't they learned anything about the normal curve of distribution?

I recently pointed out on another thread that some figure of authority in the world of sport called Jessica Ennis fat just before the London Olympics. There are far too many people in the position of telling everyone else what they should do and, especially, what they should not do. They should all be issued with peaked caps and badges so we know who they are.

absent

Slightly off topic but would appreciate advice/comments anyway. My eldest GD is 8 she is one of the fittest, most healthy and active children you could meet. She takes part in gymnastics, horse riding, running club, dancing etc. she eats lots of vegetables and tends to like a lot of the things many other children dislike (broccoli (little trees) sprouts (green pumps) carrots etc) neither of my GD are particularly sweetie fans as they prefer a slice of bread and butter or some crisps as a treat. They don't have sugary drinks at all as mum only buys sugar free juice (and it tends to be the stuff you dilute with water) She is as skinny as a pin (with muscles in her arms and legs like Popeye due to the horse riding I am told). Anyway she has three cavities in her teeth (still baby ones) that the dentist wants to fill. He says that she will need to be put to sleep as will be very uncomfortable for her. The teeth might not drop out for some time yet and will no doubt start causing pain soon (looking at them) the dentist said she probably has too much sugar in her diet and chatting to my DiL last night we couldn't actually work out how we could cut back any more sugar. Surely she needs some natural sugar as she is very active. She cleans her teeth regularly and uses a child friendly mouthwash too. The school won't allow chewing gum (I was thinking about the type that cleans your teeth) for during the day. So I am at a loss.

My children never had dental treatment when they were young in fact my DD is 28 and has never had any at all !

will pm you Gilly

gillybob

I have posted on this problem on another thread (can't remember which one).

We were so upset as our GD, who is by the way 8 in June, has suffered from fillings throughout her childhood. She has 6 second teeth and we are keeping our fingers crossed for no more problems having lost baby teeth.

The answer from the dentist, we were given her too much fruit and fruit juice. We too did not give her sweets and she preferred water to fizzy pop.

We have apparently caused her problems and it is so upsetting. We were told, and comply with, not to give her fruit juice, fruit but only at meal times, not to give snacks, including fruit, between meals.

Good luck.

I am sorry to have missed your post on another thread POGS but we seem to have a similar problem. I had a lovely PM from janeainsworth earlier who asked if she was on any long term medication, which she is not. Like your GD mine does not have sugary drinks (DiL only buys sugarfree dilute juice). She does eat apples but surely an active child needs a certain amount of sugar in their diet. My GD also has 6 second teeth and I am wondering is it possible to just have weak teeth?

The whiter the teeth, the more inclined to decay they are. In that respect it's good to have the creamy sort of teeth. I think it's the luck of the draw.

sent you another one Gilly

I was told by my dentist around 20 years ago to reduce the amount of fruit I eat and the amount of fruit juice I drank as it was stripping the enamel off my teeth. He also advised not to brush my teeth for at least 20 minutes after eating/drinking anything that contained fruit acids.

Advice on preventative measures and possible repairs are here:

https://www.dentalhealth.org/tell-me-about/topic/mouth-conditions/dental-erosion

www.drbriffa.com/2014/03/24/if-nhs-choices-wants-to-be-taken-seriously-then-i-think-it-seriously-needs-to-up-its-game/
Here is Dr Briffa explaining why he thinks the NHS Choices website is giving out the wrong advice about salt in the diet.

Good article. Thanks jane.

An interesting perspective on repeating mantra without evidence, Jane