Veganuary

Well done watermeadow, I admire you. I too am vegetarian, but haven’t committed to veganuary. Two years ago I gave up cows’ milk for January and have never gone back, finding it easy because I developed a taste for oat milk. I still eat eggs and cheese but less than I did. I do try to eat predominantly plant based meals. I agree about the carbohydrate problem and I find it difficult to lose weight. But well done to you!

Thanks, M0nica - we learn something every single day.

nightowl yes I’m still eating vegan but haven’t looked here for a while and surprised at all the comments.
I’m finding it easy as I was already vegetarian. One problem with both is that non-animal protein, like pulses, are almost all heavy on carbohydrates. I’m overweight and try to avoid carbs. There’s always tofu but I’m not keen on that. I shan’t lose any weight during Veganuary. Nor be any richer because a vegan diet is no cheaper than an animal diet.

vegansrock

I think evidence shows that most vegans are interested in what is in their foods. The UPFs that manufacturers try to maximise their profits with are definitely aimed at those who want to cut down on animal products but are not bothered about cooking from scratch and are newly trying to mimic meat based foods. Not something most long term vegans would be interested in. Plant based alternatives to dairy milk may classed as a UPF, but so are most shop bought loaves of bread. If you compare land and water use and emissions ALL plant milks, even almond, are much less environmentally damaging than dairy farming, oat milk is by far the least harmful.

Whist I agree with most of your post, I also assume many people who eat organic meat, eggs, cheese make their own decent bread, oat milk, and eschew most meat based or meat product based UPF junk foods.

Once agan vegansrock you are not comparing like with like. Omnivores who are as concerned as you about health and welfare will be buying organic dairy products and not buying supermarket bread. The bread we consume comes frorm a local artisan baker using traditional methods.

Dairy farming, like beef raising, done on Pasture for Life priciples can be environmentally neutral as these methods contribute to carbon sequestration.

^We cook real food^- 😁
food that has to be processed to make it usable-quinoa,(to get rid of saponin and chaff ) dried beans, lentils, rice, flour.

I think evidence shows that most vegans are interested in what is in their foods. The UPFs that manufacturers try to maximise their profits with are definitely aimed at those who want to cut down on animal products but are not bothered about cooking from scratch and are newly trying to mimic meat based foods. Not something most long term vegans would be interested in. Plant based alternatives to dairy milk may classed as a UPF, but so are most shop bought loaves of bread. If you compare land and water use and emissions ALL plant milks, even almond, are much less environmentally damaging than dairy farming, oat milk is by far the least harmful.

Mollygo

I think many are unaware of the chemicals and processing that use finite resources that go into some ‘vegan’ food and drinks.
For example, Plant-based milks are classed as an ultra-processed food and what people don’t know is the environmental damage almond plantations are doing in California, and the water cost.

I can't speak to 'vegan food' apart from making food from raw ingredients. We cook real food - dry beans, lentils, quinoa, veg, fruit, rices, flours, oils when making meals - eschewing animals and their products.

I've no problem with people eating animals, animal products or pre-made foods from a store, it's just not how we prefer to eat. Health concerns us - our arteries and the animals welfare.

Apart from reading GN nobody would ever guess we eat no animals, raw plant ingredients for Yotam Ottolenghi (or similar) recipes exist.

I think many are unaware of the chemicals and processing that use finite resources that go into some ‘vegan’ food and drinks.
For example, Plant-based milks are classed as an ultra-processed food and what people don’t know is the environmental damage almond plantations are doing in California, and the water cost.

Norah of course there is animal food in varying quantities in many foods an _OMNIVORE eats. It goes with the territory. To think otherwise is like drawing people's attention to the fact that vegans eat a lot of plant food.

Mollygo

Norah

I think there may be a problem realizing animal products are in many ready made foods. Eggs, milk, butter, cream, honey, anchovies, goose fat, lard, beef tallow, gelatine.
Why do you think there might be a problem?

It seems that many people don't understand animal elements are in many ready made foods. Vegans avoid meat & products that come from an animal - I listed a few ubiquitous ingredients.

Good point, not important --- apart from understanding what vegans actually find acceptable to eat.

How are you getting on with veganuary watermeadow? Are you still here?

Norah

I think there may be a problem realizing animal products are in many ready made foods. Eggs, milk, butter, cream, honey, anchovies, goose fat, lard, beef tallow, gelatine.
Why do you think there might be a problem?

vegansrock Anyone who thinks the typical British diet with its emphasis on animal products at every meal^

I think there may be a problem realizing animal products are in many ready made foods. Eggs, milk, butter, cream, honey, anchovies, goose fat, lard, beef tallow, gelatine.

Cakes, biscuits, breads, bakery foods. Chips fried in fat. Crisps, salad toppings, desserts, candy, icings, and on and on.

*vegansrock. In your post of 10.51 you said that the consumption of animal products was the cause of poor health and that we need to consume more plant products, but that is not true at so many levels. If my consumption of more plant based foods means more potato crisps, sweet biscuits, even vegetable filled pies, they are not going to do anyone's health any good at all.

What I actually wrote was consumption of sugar and refined carbohydrates. This last product seems to have slipped out of your memory. Yes, and animal fats, but refined carbohydrates are made from plants. There is no other source of refined carbohydrates and almost all the animal based products you mentioned, certainly at the cheap fatty end of the market will contain them: pastry, bread, cakes, cheap burgers and sausages, often containquite a lot of them.

The other thing is that reducing animal product consumption does not mean going vegan, vegetarian or anything else.
The problem is you keep comparing a 'good' vegan diet with a 'poor'omnivore diet. That is not comparing like with like.

I was looking at all the vegan processed food in the supermarket this week, highly processed foodstuffs got up to be bacon, or chicken or duck. Like it or not, while there are veans like you who are very careful with what you eat, many vegans are not eating healthily and eat a lot of these processed foods.

If you are going to make comparisons, it must be between similar groups, vegans with a good healthy diet with omnivores with a good healthy diet, or, vegans who eat a lot of highly processed food, with omnivores who eat a lot of highly processed foods.

monica I agree that Ultra processed foods which are high in fat and sugar are the main reason for the poor quality of the British diet and a large contributor to obesity and ill health, however your assertion that most of these are plant based I would challenge. Burgers, sausages, kebabs, pastry made with animal fats, even many sweets and cakes contain animal derivatives feature in many poor diets. A vegan diet which eschews processed foods can be a healthy one also I have never said people can’t be healthy whilst eating some good quality fish and meat in their diet, but that unfortunately isn’t what many people in the UK consume, and it certainly isn’t essential .

Anyone who thinks the typical British diet with its emphasis on animal products at every meal is talking rubbish.

Who where or when is the evidence that the typical British diet has an emphasis on animal produts at every meal. You may put milk on your cereal or butter on your toast at breakfast, and have meat in your main meal, but that isn't an emphasis on meat products, it is just part of eating a mixed diet.

Every article I read about the deficiencies of the British diet talk about our high consumption of sugar and refined carbohyrates and constant snacking of sweets and crisps as being the main cause of the decline in health and the increase in obesity. Almost everything in those foods is plant based, even though at times the link is very tenuous as the original plant food has been provessed in so many different ways.

I think that some of these shops and ranges are disappearing because plant based dieters as well as vegans and vegetarians are learning more about how to make their own cheaper, more tasty and healthy options. Listening to a doctor on a morning tv program the other day saying look at the ingredients, are they there for your benefit or the manufacturer? I stopped eating beef after the mad cow disease episode and other meats shortly after as it played on my mind what was being fed to and injected into the animals that I was consuming. It doesn't list on a steak packet if its been pumped with steroids or antibiotics. It's worth mentioning that vegans don't consider it a diet from conversations I've had. If it's just for a diet, it's called plant based.

Thank you, this was what I wanted to say, but you have beat me too it and said it better than I could.

It’s not a vegan bashing thread, so much as an omnivore bashing thread. They always are.

Anyone who thinks the typical British diet with its emphasis on animal products at every meal should think again - a recent report showed that a switch to more plant based foods could save the NHS £millions. I knew this would be a vegan bashing thread so I tried to refrain from commenting. Good luck to all of you trying to cut down on animal products. It is good for the animals and the planet.

Yes, you can. We had a neighbour in France who kept chickens and then became allergic to eggs. Whenever we visited she would present us with a basket containing about 80 eggs. Whwn we got back to England, I would put some in the fridge, gie some to my neighbours - and freeze the rest.

You either separate yoke and white and freeze separately, break and mix yokes, or you mix yoke and white together then use them in cooking - cakes or omelttes - I would not use them uncooked.

You can freeze eggs???

I am not convinced by veganism either. I read up on it a couple of years ago before veganuary and there was a whole list of dietary supplement tablets that they said were needed to make sure we got all the nutrients and that put me off. We did vegetarian january instead. Yes we missed meat, and we have gone back, but we do have more non meat/fish meals than we used to.

Camilla If you buy organic milk and dairy products you are avoiding buying products that may have been reared in poor welfare conditions