Fine Dining…..thoughts?

Fine dining is invariable over priced and rarely provides a wholesome meal.

keepingquiet

It's always been a rip-off, the culinary arts taking people for fools. It has always had a whiff of Emperors new clothes about it.

What gets me is they serve what used to be poor people's food like pig cheeks and other offal and sell it at an exhorbitant price. People will pay too! They'll be serving tripe next...

Bet they already do!😂
No fancy shmancy dining for me thanks.Either a Mum cooked meal or my own or any pub and restaurant that doesn’t overcharge and does normal foodstuffs.

flappergirl

I'm too old and jaded for fine dining! I love eating out, it's one of life's pleasures, but I'd far rather have a good tasty plate of food preferably in an independent restaurant. I like to feel relaxed too and enjoy good conversation.

The whole 9 course tasting menu thing I find a bit of an ordeal to be honest. Too rigid and too lengthy.

Give me oysters followed by lobster thermidor or a medium rare rib eye steak and triple cooked chips, a bottle Merlot or superbly chilled Pinot and I'm a very happy bunny. Oh, and an espresso martini or two to round it off.

I definitely agree with you regarding Michelin Starred Venues such as Ferràn Adrià back in 2010 / 2011 for example.

Each appetiser was accompanied by instructions on how to eat it !

I prefer fresh oysters and a lobster as you do or a rare rib eye with an excellent wine chosen by us .. and a Brandy with a dessert to share with my husband.

I had written about El Bulli and though it was a fascinating experience, it would of been alot better with alot less.

My stomach hated me !! Too many mixtures !!

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I still remember a dinner at a very expensive London restaurant with a BiL who’s a very Francophile foodie, has a chateau in France and really does love his food.

It wasn’t exactly a tasting menu and although the food was very good, the portions were truly tiny, even for me, and I’ve never been a big eater.
As we left, BiL said, ‘Well, I don’t know about anybody else, but I’m going to get a MacDonalds now.’ 😂

We haven't been to any "fine dining" restaurants since the 80s.
Back then we went to the Criterion which at the time was run by Marco Pierre White. It was a time when you could collect vouchers from a newspaper and pay a low price. We had smoked haddock with colcannon - cheap ingredients but it was absolutely perfect.

Interestingly I had been there before. In the late 60s I worked in Pall Mall. The company stopped giving us luncheon vouchers and instead we had lunch at the Criterion. It was like a works canteen. All the wall decorations were either painted or boarded over, I forget which.

The fish and chip shop in Aldeburgh is rightly famous and the food is delicious. Fish caught in the North Sea and canbe bought from the fisherman's huts on the beach.

When staying at a friend's house in France, not paying very much for it, we went to a 2 star Michelin nearby. The chef Michel Trama was aiming for 3 stars but he needed premises with rooms. He now has a 5 star hotel. The food was delicious. There was a young couple near us who had a different wine with each course. We just had one wine. I still have the bill which listed everything that we had.

We flit between fine dining (Michelin star/s) and our local restaurants depending on who we are going with, the occasion or just how we feel.

We took our children to fine dining establishments when they were younger and now our AC take their children. (With the exception of The Imp who is not ready for that environment just yet, but copes with local ones)

Just because they have a Michelin star doesn’t mean they are posh and snobby It means that you can rely on the food to be exquisite, excellent service and surroundings.

I no longer have a big appetite so smaller precise portions are better for me.

I was trained in silver service in the early 1970s and never moved drinks once poured. I did do the napkins.

I have never had too much hovering round a table either then or now. The waiting staff will wait at a distance. I think you were unlucky.
Several times cuttlery has been augmented course by course... and yes, moved into position.

V3ra

^I was at a lunch recently in quite a 'posh' venue. The food was excellent but I found the service over done. The last time I was there waiters came round and placed our napkins on our laps, this time, after the main course, they came round and moved the dessert spoon and fork from the top to either side of our plates. We are adults with table manners and quite capable of managing our napkins and cutlery.^

That I have experienced, and have no problem with.

Six of us ate at Arcadian Rhodes, Gary Rhodes restaurant onboard the P&O Arcadia cruise ship.

Each person's meal was brought to the table individually by three waiters, presented to the diner and described in detail.
(We'd ordered so knew what we were getting!).

The head waiter circled our table the whole time we were eating.
My husband had a drink of water and put his glass down.
The head waiter swooped in, moved the glass an inch, and swooped out again to carry on circling.

Never again...

Yes.. I can't bear people hovering when I'm trying to enjoy my meal in peace.. very distracting

M0nica

We all have food likes and dislikes - and allergies and intolerance and chefs, both the finest and in our homes must accept this

We were once served one of those random pre-starters that involved yoghourt/something milky. I cannot remember which, but I have mild lactose intolerance - the nearer it gets to fresh milk, the less I can tolerate it, so I politely declined it, and explained why. The waiter took it away and returned a minute later to ask if I could eat something else, I forget what, I said 'yes' and the little glass returned with something non-milk based in it. That is what a really good chef should do.

Yes, I totally agree. At a lovely hotel near us, not fine dining, but wonderful cuisine never the less, the chef goes out of his way to cater for allergies. It is very popular and you can eat a three course meal without any adverse effects.

We all have food likes and dislikes - and allergies and intolerance and chefs, both the finest and in our homes must accept this

We were once served one of those random pre-starters that involved yoghourt/something milky. I cannot remember which, but I have mild lactose intolerance - the nearer it gets to fresh milk, the less I can tolerate it, so I politely declined it, and explained why. The waiter took it away and returned a minute later to ask if I could eat something else, I forget what, I said 'yes' and the little glass returned with something non-milk based in it. That is what a really good chef should do.

I wouldn’t have thought almost raw cauliflower is fine dining, but it saves on fuel, so it’s good for the environment.

One point I would like to raise is for those who have allergies. Some of the fine dining menus are very precise in their preparation and description. Having an allergy like gluten, garlic etc must have some effect on how the dishes are prepared. We dined at a very smart restaurant recently and I ordered the cauliflower steak which was beautifully prepared. Only problem was that the cauliflower was almost raw and almost impossible to chew my way through. I ate the rest but left the cauliflower knowing that I would suffer if I ate it. The chef wanted to know what was wrong with his food and why I did not like it. Suffice to say I had to explain albeit very politely. It was his art but sadly not to my taste. At what point does the artistry and fine dining skills of the chef conflict with the diner, or should the diner also be a connoisseur? Do chefs need to consider the needs of their diners?

I was at a lunch recently in quite a 'posh' venue. The food was excellent but I found the service over done. The last time I was there waiters came round and placed our napkins on our laps, this time, after the main course, they came round and moved the dessert spoon and fork from the top to either side of our plates. We are adults with table manners and quite capable of managing our napkins and cutlery.

That I have experienced, and have no problem with.

Six of us ate at Arcadian Rhodes, Gary Rhodes restaurant onboard the P&O Arcadia cruise ship.

Each person's meal was brought to the table individually by three waiters, presented to the diner and described in detail.
(We'd ordered so knew what we were getting!).

The head waiter circled our table the whole time we were eating.
My husband had a drink of water and put his glass down.
The head waiter swooped in, moved the glass an inch, and swooped out again to carry on circling.

Never again...

Fine dining……thoughts

A lot of money for very little food in most cases. Plus often the ingredients are dirt cheap. If I wanted to eat liver or kidneys or the inside of an animal’s stomach, I wouldn’t expect to pay the earth for it.
Incidentally I wouldn’t want to eat any of those things ever.

I was at a lunch recently in quite a 'posh' venue. The food was excellent but I found the service over done. The last time I was there waiters came round and placed our napkins on our laps, this time, after the main course, they came round and moved the dessert spoon and fork from the top to either side of our plates. We are adults with table manners and quite capable of managing our napkins and cutlery. DS2 worked there for a while and says they were trained to do that, as 'silver service'. When it came to teas and coffees they came around with small tea and coffee pots and poured the drinks for people, which took forever (it was a large event). If they had put a tea and a coffee pot, milk and sugar on each table for us to pour it would have been so much quicker. Sorry for the rant.

Tuaim Look in a cook's dictionary and you will find that each word has a very precise meaning and tells you something about the food you are about to be served.

jus is just that the juice that comes from the meat when cooking, it can be simmered to reduce it to concentrate the taste, but never has thickening added
veloute a light sauce made from veal or chicken stock and flour, but with out milk
coulis A light, smooth sauce made from pureed fruits or vegetables.
bavarois is a type of sweet, velvety custard dessert.

I'm still here and completely endorse your pleasure at fine dining. Me too! And....I've also enjoyed Le Manoir experience. Both wonderful and unforgettable. My current no goes are set or tasting menus which seem to be the in thing. Too many fiddly courses for me. I'm strictly an a la carte girl and love eating out an any opportunity. Oh yes..

👍 jefm.

It's Raymond Blanc or Michel Roux, though a fusion of the two would be délicieux! 😍

I know this is at the end of the post and so doubt that many people will read it. There were so many posts that are anti fine dining and so few for it that i felt i had to reply. I love good food and i hate paying over the odds when the food isnt at the standard i would expect for the cost. I hate large pub dishes and I love taster menus. I have tried to treat us both to a Taster menu at a fine dining restaurant at least once a year. I have always loved the theatre and the experience that comes with the serving of the food and the amazing pictures on plates. I am not wealthy its just a wonderful treat. I did go over board this year for my Partners 70th. We booked Michel Blanc's Le Manor Quatre Saisons in Oxfordshire. Every single minute was just amazing. Photos capturing our experience will live with us for ever. My Partner had been there over 20 years before and longed to go again. FABULOUS

Joseann

^Yes oysters were commonly eaten and cheap to buy^.
5 euros a dozen last week. Straight from the sea. Accompanied by a white wine.
And a view to die for, if a bit drizzly.
Real fine dining!

Absolutely fabulous view

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202407/medium-970123-20240610-183035.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202407/medium-192456-img-20240610-wa0007.jpg

Yes oysters were commonly eaten and cheap to buy.
5 euros a dozen last week. Straight from the sea. Accompanied by a white wine.
And a view to die for, if a bit drizzly.
Real fine dining!

I find the cheapest cuts of meat have the most flavour. I would sooner have liver, kidney, or beef cheeks than a steak any day.

Yes oysters were commonly eaten and cheap to buy.
I do accept restaurants have overheads, just the same for the chippy down the road. Funny how fish and chips are becoming so expensive post-Brexit they are no longer a poor man's food.
As kids were ate tongue, something called brawn and haslet as well as savoury duck (my favourite) something disgusting called lamb flap, and of course, tripe.
My grandma ate sweetbreads which were sheep's brain and my aunty used to eat raw liver and soak up the blood with bread.
I agree it is staff costs that probably hike up the price in any restaurant- they do work long hours I have no quarrel with them being paid well, but cheap ingredients, however dressed up with expensive ones, are something I wouldn't eat in an expensive restaurant.
I ate enough in my childhood to last me a lifetime.

keepingquiet

Tuaim

I just love all the descriptions they use: We had pig's cheek as a speciality in a very upmarket restaurant where I live. Other words included veloute, jus, coulis, bavarois & arancini. Fascinating!

I don't know how much you paid for the pig's cheeks but back in the day this was poor person's food. Now you pay a premium for it and I can't help but think they dress it up with fancy names and you're eating offal!
It's all about the profit...

I remember seeing Bath Chaps (pigs’ cheeks) in U.K. supermarkets years ago, in the cold meats section. I dont recall my mother ever buying them, though.

As for ‘poor people’s food’, oysters were described as such in Dickens’ Pickwick Papers. IIRC, ‘It’s a werry remarkable circumstance, how oysters and poverty go together.’ (Sam Weller?).

Re offal again, an elderly Yorkshire landlady when I was a student in the late 60s, who told me her family had been very poor when she was a child, once gave me some cold meat that looked a bit like tongue, but paler. I wasn’t keen on tongue, but ate it anyway.
‘Do you like that, love?’ she asked.
‘Yes,’ I lied politely. ‘What is it?’
‘Udder.’ 😱