Funding the NHS?

rosesarered - if you drop me a PM (you are offline so I can't send one now) I will let you have the name of the gel that she can ask for. It is expensive to be fair but if your daughter is having a real problem now and again, it is fantastic and helps so much, she could always pay for the times when it is bad; at least it's an option.

AAA

I am not rich.

GrannyTwice

Holly - I thought the IOM health care system wasn't part of the NHS?

It's part of my NHS

There used to be a reciprocal agreement between the Isle of Man and the UK - I think we still treat UK residents free but the UK charge us. Our health service follows the Whitley Council procedures so what is decided in the UK does affect us here. Also, if something can't be treated here or we don't have the facilities, we are sent to the UK for those procedures (as private patients but treated as NHS).

I have had a fair bit of treatment in the UK prior to my moving here as well.

jane I did not make an incorrect statement thanks. The couple I know do not live in a cave, but in a dilapidated caravan.Yes, there is always somebody just dying to point out 'an incorrect statement' isn't there?There are some people who do not pay taxes, not many I know, but some.

Roses If you make incorrect statements, then the chances are that someone will point that out. I wasn't nit-picking.
The fact is that many people believe that less well-off people 'don't pay taxes'.
They do.
www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/16/british-public-wrong-rich-poor-tax-research
"The report said the higher percentage paid by the poor at the moment was down to a number of taxes. "While income tax and national insurance are broadly progressive, the bottom 10% of households pay roughly 23% of their gross household income in indirect taxes on consumption and more than four times as much of their income in council tax as the top 10%," it said."

We all want the NHS to go on in it's present form, but can it?Talking of limited procedures to save money; I have a friend who is very active but is over 70, she has had endless problems with her knee and the GP says the NHS will not pay for a scan for her, due to her age.That, and my DH's eye problems give me cause to worry about the NHS for older people. They may in the past, have kept older people going [sometimes too much] but not any more.

Sheer nitpicking jane

Roses Anyone who buys anything apart from food and children's clothes pays VAT.
That include gas and electricity.
So unless the people you know are living in a cave, they pay taxes.

Of course immigrants are not to blame for the use of the NHS, this country has invited most of them here in the first place, and hospitals seem to be entirely staffed by them.Controlled immigration to this country would have been a better thing[but that's another subject altogether.]What I actually said was that when the NHS was set up back in the 1940's they did not realise that there would be mass immigration here.Yes, there are other factors, but population numbers will be the biggest factor.
I do know a couple of people who don't pay any taxes actually [not their fault, mental health issues.]But that's not the point, the majority of us pay taxes and we help those that can't.
The NHS will have to change in some way, either it won't be able to offer the services it once did [that is already happening in a small way, for what used to be called cosmetic procedures, removal of warts, ganglions etc]hospitals don't offer those services now.So it will be cut services or make extra charges at point of need, maybe .My DH's GP told him that you need to be really bad now to get cataract ops done on the NHS.As he feels he is really bad already [and his optician agrees]he will have it done privately as soon as he can afford it.It's either that or give up driving.

Many think that the National Insurance contribution is only for the NHS, but it covers much more and is very good value for money.

State Pension
contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance
Bereavement Allowance
contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance.

some of these are based on how much you have actually contributed, but much of it is funded even if you have never contributed.

One way to save a great deal of money is to stop the waste of drugs, many of which are binned when not used, even if they are in unbroken packaging and only just prescribed (not out of date) When someone dies, or is unable to use their prescription for some reason, those unopened drugs are, without exception, thrown away.

What on earth....

Eloe, Thaness w r t : AAA????????????????????????
Why not PM me?

AAA ?????!

Eloethan Sat 21-Jun-14 00:04:30 and durhamjen Sat 21-Jun-14 00:14:53
I'd not really thought of "stream of consciousness" , but since it is related to phenomenology, and opposed to the mock-scientific perception of humans propounded by the Behaviourists, thank you for the compliment.
Compared with the belief in Magic and other odd ways of reaching conclusions based on the firmly held adherence to the existence of Phlogiston and ''The Ether'', seemingly embraced by certain contributors - perhaps I'm best sticking to the style you describe.
Was this an example of what you described?

I think you just have to check his references and read them a few times, then the eureka moment comes, Eloethan.
That's what I do anyway, and it seems to work.

AAA I find some of your posts very difficult to follow. Are you employing the "stream of consciousness" method used by experimental novelists - much lauded by critics but a complete mystery to many readers?

Well said, Eloethan.
We've had threads before about the fact that the health service would be even more on its knees than it is now if it wasn't for immigrants working in it.
Why are people always so ready to put it down instead of wanting to improve it for our children and grandchildren?
However much it has changed it is going to change even more if this government gets its way. Then only the rich will be able to afford medical care.
I know I keep mentioning him but Harry Smith talks about his sister who died of TB in 1926, pre the NHS. She had to be taken to the workhouse for her last month, because the family had no money to feed her and pay for her medication. Do we really want to go back to that, because that is what he is worried about?
How many of the people over 60 would be able to afford all our medication if we had to pay for every item?

rosesarered Fri 20-Jun-14 22:22:16 , ... but not everyone pays any taxes anyway
VAT, Council tax, ??

Ana Fri 20-Jun-14 22:33:59
No it wasn't
''Oh, yes it was! Wasn't it children?''
''Yes it was ! You're a naughty Gran, Ana, scaring us like that, just 'cos you're rich. Our mummy and daddy can't even afford proper shoes for us, we have to put cardboard inside our old worn out ones every morning to go to school.
Must go, mummy's back from the church food bank - she had to walk two miles each way - no money for the privatized, de-regulated bus fares, she said. And it was raining.''

Can't be bothered to answer you again, Ana. I know about lifesaving having had mine saved at Easter last year by the NHS.
I also know about private and NHS, having had a guest house in York where one of the guests was a German surgeon who operated on hips at the Bupa hospital a few doors away. If anything went wrong, she sent the patient to A&E at the NHS hospital in the next street.
I have said this before. Is there something wrong with your memory?

durhamjen Fri 20-Jun-14 22:27:09
If any of my grandchildren needed lifesaving operations, they would be done in an NHS hospital, Ana. Private hospitals do not do lifesaving. Anyone in a private hospital whose life needs saving gets sent to the nearest A&E. Verging on a personal attack there, Ana.
Well said, Jen, and restrained with ''Verging'.
After all Ana, you do have a record of Troll-ish postings, don't you dear? Z, Z, Z
So many employ the tactic of ''If loosing an argument - resort to ad hominem. It spurts out in debates on Pacifizm; non-violence; the right to carry guns; hanging; life-should-mean-life; etc.
This is well documented, and happened in a local (To me) Private med facility.
Young family man goes in for a routine vasectomy - snip - Oi - he won't stop bleeding - that's an unusual blood group on his pre-op - 3 units please - WHAT not ordered! Get hold of some PDQ - NHS the other side of the City- well send a car - it's the afternoon school-run rush hour - nobody available or insured , w t f ? The cleaner says he knows the way, he'll go! Send him NOW - Is he back yet? just picked it up - too late the guy's bled to death - does that mean we'll loose the contract? [Of course not]. Did anyone go to jail. Huh! QED?

I too don't like the implication that those who oppose private health care do so because they can't afford it themselves. I worked for many years in a city firm of solicitors where I was entitled to free top-notch health care. I decided not to take up my entitement because I don't agree with private health care.

That's not to say that I can be sure that I would never, even in the most worrying circumstances, think of paying for a private consultation for myself or those close to me. Who's to know what he or she would do in that situation. I would never criticise anyone for taking that decision - I feel it is the system and not the individual that is at fault.

As to the comment about people pouring in from places like India, Pakistan and the West Indies, these people were urged to come here and work for the NHS (and other public services) by the British Government. My husband was one of them and he was a committed and caring public servant for the whole of his working life.

Well Rose - I don't know what world you live in, but I don't know anyone who doesn't pay taxes of one kind or another

Ah rosesarered its the immigrants fault that the NHS is under pressure is it.
Be under a lot more pressure if all the immigrants that work in it decided to withdraw their labour for a week or two.
Truth of the matter is that we live a lot longer than we did when the NHS was invented and there are a lot more things it offers now than it did then. These are the factors that have increased demand - a lot more people being kept alive by the NHS and being offered a lot more ways to keep them alive for even longer.
I remember visiting a surgical ward in a research capacity 25 years ago and being told that most of the operations they do are on people well into retirement age. Same with medical wards - they are predominantly occupied by older people.

No it wasn't. I asked you whether your principles would be compromised if it came to saving the life of one of your grandchildren. I wasn't talking about operations, I meant diagnosis and treatment.