'Flu jabs!

Got mine (flu jab) booked - they set up at our Village Hall, which is handy.

What are you on about Jane? What is rude about saying I've heard it all before. I have, it's the same old, same old.....just as it's the same old, same old that you take any excuse to make a dig at me.

BACK OFF

Yes Ana I did know what response I'd get and sure enough!

Some people are do Utterly Predicable....how boring!

Let me rephrase that So Utterly Predictable!

No idea what you are being so crabby about aka.
I was responding to KatyK and her questions. Is that allowed without boring (or ignoring) you so unfairly?

Perhaps you just don't realise how aggressive 'heard it all before Jess, OK' appears to others, Aka.

Not being crabby with you Jess or suggesting you were boring.

My reply was JaneA who ironically does realise how aggressive she appears.

Thank you nankate for the kind suggestion. I discussed it with DH this morning. Its not who gives it to him really all the nurses are so competent at our surgery but its the consultation first on what reaction he might have - he doesn't have a spleen so his immune system is a bit under ar and he has been on low dose penciliin (this is quite normal) since losing it in car accident (and gaining me his nurse) some 36 years ago. He's got a couple of years to think about it.

I do agree with other potters we both had real 'flu together one year and it was very unpleasant - so we both enjoy a small prick every Autumn and its all OK.

and stop squabbling you lot and play nice really!!

To return to the question of 'flu jabs.....

There is evidence that they are not especially effective for over 65s though the new high dose one, being used in the USA for the first time this year (I think) does show promise.

There is too much anecdotal evidence that some people react badly to the this vaccine. I used to scoff at those who said this until I had a terrible reaction to my one and only jab and was ill from October till mid December, losing a lot of weight in the process (every cloud..). Now I take your point Jess that it might have been unrelated but it started a few days after the injection, I'm rarely ill, have never experience anything like that before, and I simply do not want to risk another two months out of action if it was not a coincidence.

There are chemical compounds added to vaccines to preserve and stabilise them. One of these, Thimerosal, contain mercury. There are others if you care to google them.

So my point is, I've heard all the arguments for before. But there are reasons in not going to have my flu jab this year and I've stated them above.
Everyone else can do as they think best.

Sue love the 'Potters'

That's really interesting to me Aka after the bad allergic reaction I had to both the pneumonia and the shingles jabs I had in August. The pharmacist indicated that it must have been a reaction to the medium the vaccines were in and you have identified one of the components. I am not risking the 'flu jab either.

I have never had a flu jab nor will I do so unless I develop health problems or a compromised immune system. My approach is to let my (so far) strong immune system take care of itself. I had swine flu a few years ago and it was awful - I couldn't get out of bed for several days and really thought I might never get up again, but it is a chance I am willing to take. I really don't believe in messing about with my body unless there are good reasons to do so. Similarly I resist taking medication for everyday aches and pains or minor illnesses.

I realise that I am very lucky to be able to take this approach and of course it would be different if I had significant health issues like my OH who has to be very careful. So whilst I am certainly not against modern medicine and am thankful to live in an age when so many treatments are available, I think we should use it wisely and sparingly. As Aka points out, immunisation is not without cost.

The more of us get inoculated, the less likelihood there is of an epidemic. You don't just have the jab for your own benefit. Herd immunity is an important consideration.

My understanding is that the vaccine isn't fully effective until three weeks after the jab, so if there was a flu virus going around it would be possible to catch it during those three weeks.

It's not very effective at all especially for over 65s

Flu itself is pretty effective at flooring and even killing the over-65s, though.

So all the more reason for an effective vaccine surely?

I've been over 65 for 8 years, and I haven't had flu in that time - or in all the years before that when my GP put me on the list.

Do you have statistics on how many people get flu after the vaccine, aka ? And their ages and previous state of health?

Not immediately after it - that is a very subjective measurement, as it is often an unpredicted reaction, or they already had the bug before the vaccine got to work. Those subjects are self-selecting too - they would report the flu as being caused by the vaccine when it was probably random.

I'm not saying the flu vaccine gives you flu Elegran I'm saying it's not very effective in preventing it in 'the elderly'
Here is one study that gives some stats on this.

When I was ill after my jab it wasn't flu....I had that in the 60s epidemic so know what it's like. Whatever I had it was very debilitating, lasted ages and is not an experience I wish to repeat.

As a practising nurse I also know the science.

After my one and only flu vaccine 10 years ago I became so ill, within hours, with flu-like symptoms and was practically bed-ridden for two weeks.

I lost a lot of weight and was so dehydrated that even my gums shrank!

Never again.

Here is another study - jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=383571 which comes to a different conclusion.

"Design. —Randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial.

Setting. —Fifteen family practices in the Netherlands during influenza season 1991-1992.

Participants. —A total of 1838 subjects aged 60 years or older, not known as belonging to those high-risk groups in which vaccination was previously given.

Intervention. —Purified split-virion vaccine containing A/Singapore/6/86(H1N1), A/Beijing/353/89(H3N2), B/Beijing/1/87, and B/Panama/45/90 (n=927) or intramuscular placebo containing physiological saline solution (n=911).

Main Outcome Measures. —Patients presenting with influenzalike illness up to 5 months after vaccination; self-reported influenza in postal questionnaires 10 weeks and 5 months after vaccination; serological influenza (fourfold increase of antibody titer between 3 weeks and 5 months after vaccination).

Results. —The incidence of serological influenza was 4% in the vaccine group and 9% in the placebo group (relative risk [RR], 0.50; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.35 to 0.61). The incidences of clinical influenza were 2% and 3%, respectively (RR, 0.53; 95% CI, 0.39 to 0.73). The effect was strongest for the combination of serological and clinical influenza (RR, 0.42; 95% CI, 0.23 to 0.74). The effect was less pronounced for self-reported influenza.

Conclusion. —In the elderly, influenza vaccination may halve the incidence of serological and clinical influenza (in periods of antigenic drift).(JAMA. 1994;272:1661-1665) "

It's a dilemma isn't it? I'm not going to have one, as I'm a coward. I know two people who developed Guillome barre ( spelling???)" syndrome after the flu jab....possibly a coincidence of course. I agree with the herd immunity aspect for childhood vaccinations , but not sure it's the same for flu. having said that I'm not a very scientific soul.

I will be having the flu jab, and indeed paid for it before I reached the magic 65. One year I did have an inflamed and itchy arm for a week afterwards, but the other times I had no reaction. I am influenced (sorry about the pun) by the memory of Asian Flu in the 50s and the death of one of my neighbour's children at just 13. Surely all medical treatment is a risk, but I happily admit to being swayed by emotional factors as well as the science.

Herd immunity is much spoken of but often misunderstood. It can only work if vaccines are highly effective (which the flu jab is not) and provide long term immunity and / or are given regularly. The problem with this has been illustrated by the fact there have been outbreaks of measles and mumps amongst university students (my own son being one) and pertussis in adults (the subject if at least one long thread on gransnet a while ago) because people mistakenly believed that being vaccinated in childhood had conferred lifelong immunity.

I do not accept that I should have a flu jab to protect others. Those who are vulnerable will have had the jab anyway. When I caught swine flu my husband did not catch it, so his flu jab presumably worked. We each must take responsibility for our own health.

kittylester Can you just walk into Sainsburys and ask to have it (paying, of course) or do you need to make an appointment? Our surgery only does flu jabs on Saturday mornings and DH has very important things to do on Saturdays. ()