NHS again

trisher I agree - it is they that have imposed their political ideology on the NHS, Cameron having pledged that they would not, with the disastrous consequences we see now.

The Conservatives have said on many occasions that they wish to shrink the role of the state, which obviously involves amongst other things, the provision of public services.

Published by ConservativeHome.

www.adrianhilton.com/index.php/why-is-jeremy-hunt-contradicting-his-own-departments-advice/

Well said, trisher. I agree with every word.

As this has become a political debate about the NHS can I just say that I find it unbelievable that the government are now saying "let's take the NHS out of politics and run it sensibly". When the medical profession and nurses and midwives warned that their proposed top down reorganisation wouldn't work they were ignored, and the reorganisation happened. The ensuing chaos is their responsiblility. The millions spent doing this could be funding more doctors,nurses and beds. Now they want us to believe they really care about the NHS.

One of the problems is that some of the ideas that get put into practice just feel gimmicky - 111 service sounds like a good idea on paper until you start to cost it and look at the practicalities. I am sure that people are right to say that it is underfunded with poorly trained staff doing their very best. And the algorithms they follow reasonably tend to err on the safe side and result in people being directed to A&E.

Of course, if parents are concerned that their child may have a serious illness and they can't see a GP, it would be perfectly natural to seek help from any source available.

I think durhamjen is right in saying Jeremy Hunt's first port of call should have been the 111 service that he has directed other people to use. Possibly he did use that service and they advised him to take his child to A&E. It has been reported that the 111 call handlers are much more likely to advise people to call an ambulance or to make their own way to A&E because they (unlike the previous NHS Direct staff) do not have enough medical support to enable them to make an informed decision as to whether the symptoms complained of indicate a serious problem or not.

I and many other people were against Labour entering into the PFI agreements with private companies to build and maintain new hospitals and schools. However, I think it should be borne in mind that when Labour first took over from the Conservatives, the NHS was - as now - in an absolutely chaotic state with a severe shortage of beds, similar stories of people waiting for hours on trolleys, hospitals and medical equipment in a severe state of dilapidation and disrepair, etc. etc.

People misusing the A&E service, either through ignorance or irresponsibility, are not a new thing. Those working in hospitals know exactly why the system is screeching to a halt - the massive cuts that have drastically affected support for people in their homes (including a 69% decrease in Meals on Wheels) and that have negatively affected
GP services.

[ by the last post

I think the NHS should be run by an apolitical body.

What I can never understand is why what the Labour party says is considered political, but what the Tory party has done to the NHS is not considered political by some on this forum.

You said what the difference is, JessM. NHS direct had nurses in every call centre. 111 does not. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEViub.a9UvsoAUggPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNW1iMWN2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1420847643/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3d-DA8DHe3-wI/RK=0/RS=VLYX9iNmxkXFNGvxfvXddDCGkPY-

papaoscar is right. The NHS is precious and we all hold it dear to our hearts. We have to think how we protect it from political game-playing, under-funding and poor management.

We have an election coming up which should be out opportunity to say what we think - I am waiting for some clarity on the subject from any of the parties.

Sorry Durhamjen but NHS Direct was also a call centre. One of the offices was in MK and I visited once. There were a small number of nurses available to refer certain calls. Staff followed a set script on the computer - like a flwo diagram - "has he got a temperature" "has he vomited" that kind of thing.
The staff were agency staff getting paid £7.00 something an hour and being required to work weekend and overnight shifts with very little notice of when those shifts would be. I did not think it was particularly well managed as far as staff were concerned. However it had become a known national service. The current government thought they were getting paid too much and ended the contract with different areas having different arrangements for a while. Period of chaos ensued with nobody knowing what number to call etc. Not sure how it is run now, or by whom.

Do you know anyone in a care home?
Do you think this is right?

pulsetoday.msgfocus.com/c/125RO9qbUH1YPw0HAHwmPcK1

Let's not descend into petty tit-for-tat arguments over this. The NHS is a great institution under enormous pressure and now needs some care itself. Many of us owe our lives to it and will do whatever is necessary to save it from its predators, be they Tory, Socialist or anybody else.

Going from memory and thinking back to snippets of conversations I had when I worked for the NHS and I'm pretty sure that work colleagues said 111 was rubbish.

durhanjen

You are correct. You only 'implied' 111 was crap not stated it.

Rose, do you think what Diane Abbott said was any worse than Cameron saying there would be no top down reorganisation, knowing that Lansley had been looking into doing what he and Hunt have done for the previous five years?
They have destroyed the NHS and caused this crisis.

POGS, I did not say 111 was a "crap" service. I never use that word except when quoting here, obviously, before you say that.
I said it was worse than NHS Direct, and gave my reasons. NHS Direct was run by medical staff. 111 is not. It's like a call centre when they have a list of questions to ask. If you go the right path, you win an ambulance or paramedic, or lose in some cases.

Yes 111, probably saved my life when I had an aortic dissection, in that they first sent a paramedic who phoned for an ambulance. If they had realised what was wrong with me, I would have probably been taken to Newcastle straight away instead of to Durham for 4 days, but at least I was not lifting heavy weights and making the dissection worse, which I could have been if I had been at home.
I was actually in hospital when the new NHS England came into being. I asked a few nurses about it, and they did not seem to know what I was talking about, apart from the fact that new stationery had been ordered which cost a fortune and they could not see the point of it.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/real-root-ae-crisis-lies-far-beyond-wards

This article criticises both Labour and Conservative, for those of you who think I am not impartial enough.

"Everyone who has any contact with it knows that 111 is worse than NHS direct"

I've never used 111, so I can't comment, but my last experience of NHS Direct was appalling. (It was better 13 years ago, though.)

So Labour were foolish to start that process then.
Can they be trusted with the NHS?

It is too important to be used by politicians like this. What did Diane Abbott call it last night - their 'Main Card' I think was the term she used.
That is disgusting.

Was it papa who said it should be taken out of politics altogether? I am inclined to agree.

We will never have a resolution to the problems that beset the NHS as long as politicians use it as a political point-scorer and change the goalposts every time a government changes colour.

durhamjen

You do not know what process Jeremy Hunt took before attending A&EE with his child, or do you know him personally.

You then accuse 111 of being a crap service. You could well be right I don't know.

What confuses me is you then state :-

"I used. 111 and it probably 'saved my life' in 2013"

"It seems our politicians are unable to get a grip on the most important aspects of life but what to do about it??"

It's because the voters who elect them would rather spend on private wealth than public wealth. People forget that healthcare, schools, policing, sanitation, refuse collection, roads, libraries, etc. are all wealth that our ancestors didn't have, because they measure their wealth by whether their cars and houses are bigger than their friends'.

Another link for you to sigh about, Mishap.

nhap.org/circle-withdrawal-hinchingbrooke-hospital-shows-folly-nhs-privatisation/

POGS, if I had a child or grandchild needing medical attention I would not go to A&E. I would ring 111, because it works in Durham.
If it does not work in Surrey, that's probably because it was handed over to Virgincare by Jeremy Hunt, something else you can find out on catchup.

It certainly is a major concern but there are points in the report that are worth noting.

I. They say they have had a 10% funding cut.

2. Labour put Hinchingbrooke Hospital out for tender, the coalition continued the process, which was a long way down the track and had to be legally continued.

3. The hospital spokesman says they cannot cope with the increase in the volume of patients. As is the issue from all hospital accounts.

4. They are like all hospitals struggling to get joined up working with Social Services to free up beds.

5. They like the NHS/government proposals for this to happen but say it is not happening quick enough for it to be assessed.

I am not defending I am making reasonable points.

I think the Simon Stevens plan they are talking of is the Integrating Personal Commission which to me looks well worth doing, it does however start in April and therefore it is justified for the hospital to say it might be too late for them.

The comment re Andy Burnham , shall I call it being slightly more subdued than normal, is correct. That's because Andy Burnham started the privatisation of Hinchingbrooke and has been challenged about his hypocrisy over this many times. The last time I recal seeing a good interview with Burnham over thisl was I think on Daily Politics.

When Burnham put Hinchingbrooke out to tender there was only one NHS Hospital/NHS Area in the running, the others were all private bidders. The NHS hospital,, would have been 'The Preferred Bidder'. I think from memory it might have been Peterborough?? BUT and here is the crux of why the present government are getting accused of privatising Hinchingbrooke, the NHS bidder PULLED OUT leaving the present government with only one choice, to accept under the terms of the bidding process a private provider.

That one politician is the one who criticises us for doing just that, bags.
In case you had not realised, Jeremy Hunt is in charge of the NHS.
If he wants us to use 111, he should do so himself.

Crun, this government set up 111 and handed it over to private healthcare. It was then run by people with no health experience, and much of it, especially in the West Country, was then abandoned by Circle as they realised they could not make a profit out of it.

Everyone who has any contact with it knows that 111 is worse than NHS direct, because it is understaffed and under-resourced. However, that does not get over the problem that Jeremy Hunt and David Cameron tell us we should use our GP first or 111 if it is out of hours. Jeremy Hunt thinks that does not apply to him.

I used 111 and it probably saved my life in 2013. Why could Jeremy Hunt not do that for his children? If he had phoned 111 and they had told him to go to A&E, he would have told us so. He did not.

ayse I have found the same; although DH and I have both received emergency care for minor issues in Australia because the NHS has a reciprocal arrangement, anything else is very expensive. I was due a routine blood test when I was there, I had to find a clinic and pay about £80 just for a fbc; when I phoned to ask for the results the doctor was extremely rude.
We take the NHS very much for granted.