Addiction or illness- choice or no choice

The best definition of being an alcoholic that I have seen is "when alcohol costs you more than money". If you start to lose your relationships, your job, your health, then you have a problem. It really doesn't matter whether there is a disease or lifestyle choice model at this point of someone's drinking, because ultimately the question is "Do I drink THIS drink, NOW?" If the answer is no, then there is hope of recovery; if the answer is yes, then that way the problems usually get worse. Some alcoholics can stop, some can keep their drinking under control and still function, and some simply can't stop for whatever reason.The trouble with the middle group is that there is usually no way of distinguishing them from the last group until it's too late, which is why total abstinence is often the recommended strategy.
As an aside, my dentist once told me he could tell who was likely to be drinking too much because alcoholics tend to have an abnormal gag reflex when having dentistry. I don't know what the evidence for this is.

That's interesting about the gag reflex, tresco. My husband has a very sensitive gag reflex. He's not an alcoholic.

I take your point bags but I think people who are addicted - whether to cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, drugs or whatever can convince themselves that they are not affecting anyone else but themselves but this is so far from the truth to be ridiculous. At the very least, they are spending a lot of money on their habit. This may not be a problem if they are very wealthy but for most ordinary people it will have an impact. Their health will suffer to some extent, causing worry and concern for their family members, as well as intense frustration at seeing someone they love destroy themselves slowly. Ultimately, many will die of related illnesses, like your father thatbags. I mentioned this in a earlier post on the other thread, and acknowledged that I find it very difficult to feel compassion for members of my family who have died in this way and others who seem intent on doing so. I think children whose parents die young from alcohol, tobacco, or drug abuse are often understandably angry with them, which is a heavy burden for a child to manage alongside their grief.

Like some others on here, I draw no distinction between alcoholics and drug addicts, they're all the same to me.

Well, alcohol is a drug, so I guess there isn't any difference technically. Nicotine ditto.

I don't feel angry with my dad. Never did with regard to his smoking. The fact that he smoked certainly impacted his five kids: none of us took it up because we saw how difficult it was for him to give up. He said he had only one regret in his life and that if he had his life again there was only one thing he would do differently: he wouldn't have started smoking.

I'm not going to start blaming and judging because he made a mistake when he was twelve and happened to get addicted to nicotine. Smoking was not seen in the same way back then. My mum, who never smoked, said she was the only one among their university pals who didn't smoke and she only didn't because she was asthmatic.

I feel the same compassion for someone fighting an addiction as I feel for someone with a chronic illness so, I guess, answering the OP question, I regard addiction as if not an illness then an affliction.

I feel compassion for the ones who aren't fighting it too. There but for 'grace' might I have gone.

I'm using the word grace their somewhat poetically. It's not to be taken literally as the religious sort.

there

My father was a violent alcoholic. He could give up for weeks on end but would always go back to it. His wife and all of us children suffered terribly because of it (my brother so traumatised by his childhood that he
committed suicide in his 20s). He never seemed remorseful for any problems he caused because he was living his life as he wanted to live it. He should never have married and had children but he was reckless. A few weeks before he died, he told my sister that he had cried for hours on a particular day, reflecting on his life. He wasn't ill but maybe had a premonition that he would die soon, so maybe there was some remorse at the end or maybe he was scared that he was about to meet his maker. I enjoy a drink myself, but I hope I know where to draw the line and my family have never suffered because of me.

My understanding of addiction is:

No one sets out to become addicted (in other words, they have a compulsion).

Denial is part of and is one of the symptoms of addiction (and it's not just "functioning" alcoholics who are in denial).

There is a growing problem with "behavioural addiction" - gambling, porn, gaming etc. The effects on the family is probably not as bad as living with an alcoholic, but it has a big impact nonetheless.

Re denial - it was popular in the 1990s to have "interventions" - a group of close family and friends, led by a professional would confront the addicted person and tell them of the effect it is having on them, in an attempt to breach the denial. Then interventions fell out of fashion, now I believe it is coming back. So if there was a skilled intervention, I believe the person then has a choice. Before that or without that, no choice (unless they have an epiphany).

KatyK I understand exactly what you are saying all this talk of 'functioning' alcoholics leaves me cold. It's the out-of- control alcoholics who destroy everyone they touch. We both know the reality of that.

KatyK and Anya, I'm so sorry you have had these experiences ((hugs))

I can't imagine how awful it must be to live with a violent, destructive addict. It doesn't compare, but I do think even the 'functioning alcoholics' have an impact on those that share their lives. I think they kid themselves that they are not hurting anyone else. It can be very hard to be angry with them because they can be kind, loving people who provide well for their families, at the same time as slowly destroying themselves. While I feel compassion for them, that can wear very thin as you watch someone slowly destroy themselves without ever accepting that there might be a different way.

I know this thread has been mainly about addiction to substances, but a gambling addiction can ruin just as many lives. In purely monetary terms it must be a major cause of family breakups and in some cases, destitution. And as with all addictions, it's certainly not confined to men.

Thank goodness we haven't had gambling addiction in our family - at least, not as far as I know.
Drinking alcohol regularly is a habit which eventually creates dependence, physically and psychologically. I think anyone can become hooked.
Sometimes it seems to "run in families", but most of that is due to familiarity.
It certainly doesn't help to call it a disease, unless you're looking for an excuse to continue.

Anya and KatyK I totally agree.

BIL even after very expensive 8 week stays in the Priory didn't stay dry for long. He can't take Antabuse medication because of a heart condition and clearly has zero intention of stopping regardless of the appalling effects on him and his family.

It's put me off alcohol completely. There's no history of any type of addictive behaviour at all in the family.

I just don't understand how his body copes, 21+ units/day of strong cider + a litre of vodka...........not forgetting several admissions for head injuries when he's fallen over, fractured ribs....

In this context I think smoking and alcohol are very different. Alcohol changes peoples' moods and the way they interact with others- especially close family members, be their spouses or children. So yes, someone can be a very successful businessman, Judge, whatever- and yet be an alcoholic with moods swings and other behaviour that does impact on his /her family (as well as risk liver and oesophagus and other diseases that can and do cut their lives short).

My sil smokes heavily- just like my mum did. My mum died aged 94- but was crippled for many years due to her smoking. But I would love my grandchildren to have their dad into adulthood- I've known many youngsters who lost their parents far too early due to smoking, or drinking.

I think there is such a thing as a personality trait that leads a person to excess, which can be something chemical such as alcohol and caffeine or something behavioural such as gambling and pornography. I think George W. Bush was the example given in the article I read; having been an alcoholic, he moved on to become a fanatical born-again Christian.

I so agree with you granjura; 'functioning' they may be to the outside world , but at home the mood swings affect the whole family ,and treading on eggshells is the norm, not to mention as someone said earlier the expense. Your comment in your OP also,struck a chord with me. It's ok to be , as Alistair Campbell put it ' enslaved' to alcohol, but anyone with a bad relationship,with food is treated with disgust, not sympathy. Excess weight is more difficult to hide than a damaged liver and a drink problem.

Sorry about all the misplaced commas.

Anya and loopy and nightowl thank you. Nightowl - you mention someone destroying themselves. I totally agree but as a child I didn't see it as him destroying himself. I saw it as he was terrifying us and I was too ashamed to ask friends to the house and wanted a normal life.. I am ashamed to say that I wished he would destroy himself and then our lives would have been better. Sorry if that sounds unfeeling. I can see it differently as an adult. Maybe he could have been helped today.

No I don't think that sounds unfeeling at all KatyK. As a child you didn't want the chaos and fear and I think it would be quite a normal response to just want that person to disappear, however they did it. I was talking about the so called 'functioning alcoholic' who appears to live and support their family while slowly killing themselves.

As Atqui and granjura have highlighted, that brings a range of ambivalent emotions for others in the addict's life, which can be very difficult for children in particular to manage; why is my mum/dad too tired to get up in the morning? Why are they in a bad mood when they do get up? Why do they promise to take me to football on Saturday and then let me down? Why are there bottles all over the living room? Why is mum/dad poorly all the time? And in the end, why don't they love me enough to take the first step to change this? And then when they die, having to listen to other people saying what a wonderful person they were (and maybe they truly were, like Charles Kennedy) and feeling very guilty because you feel incredibly angry with that wonderful person.

Katyk No that doesn't sound unfeeling.. This person probably wrecked your childhood and unless people WANT to be helped I don't believe they can be. I'm sure many alcoholics are in denial and don't see themselves as such unless they start drinking after breakfast.

A good article by Ivan Massow on the subject:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ivan-massow/alcoholism-disease-that-tells-you-theres-no-problem_b_7519936.html

Thanks for the link GK . A very apt title ,tho hopefully not all children with low self esteem will become alcoholics.

I haven't read the other thread.

I am like others here - uncomfortable with the idea of alcoholism as a disease.

My father was a heavy drinker from my late chlldhood onwards, and this caused mood swings (though no violence) which were unpleasant and scary. His drinking developed into alcoholism later and he never really accepted he had a problem, and while I have sympathy for those 'fighting addiction' he never properly fought it. He was in rehab once, for 12 weeks, and we later found out he was leaving the unit and bringing in alcohol (the regime was a bit lax....). He lied and manipulated, and damaged most close relationships. I begged him on a number of occasions to stop - as did my siblings. We told him his grandchildren had seen him drunk and passed out - it made no difference.

He ruined holidays and family occasions.

His physical health was badly affected, and yes, he fell and hurt himself many times.

I could go on! Eventually the drink (probably) killed him but he was in his 80s when it finally happened, so he might have died anyway.

He was not a bad person, but in this area of his life, he chose alcohol and chose to ignore his family's well-being. He didn't fight it. That's why for him, it was different from a disease.

How sad for you and your siblings Elena .It amazes me that some peoples physical constitution can withstand the abuse of alcohol for so long.

That's awful elena.