Coca-Cola and sugar

I would rather people made better choices too, but what I think you are underestimating is the huge power of advertising and the food industry. I don't have any problem resisting those things either and nor do my family, but that doesn't mean it is true for everyone. As an LA link inspector for primary schools, I worked with many of my headteachers on inventive and thoughtful locally-based projects projects about healthy eating. We saw good results many a time and some families who took it all on board and made long-term significant changes. Sadly, there were many who for whatever reason just didn't persist. The epidemic of obesity, tooth decay and type 2 diabetes suggests that things haven't got any better.
Why should people have to fight their way past the misinformation of vested interests and powerfu people whose only motive is profit? Wouldn't genuinely independent research and a consistent message be more helpful?

I think some useful scientific research could be done into why people overeat and in particular why they eat too much sweet stuff. I think that is beginning with the notion of sugar being addictive to some people. There will be sound evolutionary reasons why we are where we're at with food in the developed countries.

I guess I'm just not enough of a control freak to want to legislate about people's choices. I'd rather they made better choices based on good education.

I agree that the effect of obesity and related health problems is a drain on the NHS but i think we'll get past that, as we have largely got past other horrible and killer diseases that used to affect large proportions of the population.

My overall view is that education is always the best answer, education how to resist advertisements (i.e. look at them with a critical frame of mind: who is advertising, why, etc), education about what sugar is and where it occurs.

Some of that is happening in schools already or else why did DD1 not want GS1 to have anything obviously sugary when he was a baby, and why is Minibags, at just fifteen, reducing her sugar intake–what she buys for lunch at school; what she asks me not to buy (e.g. Nutella. Actually I have a jar hidden because I like a Nutella sandwich once in a while) because she wants to avoid it–without any input from me?

So, in short, I agree with no8.

I did write some notes in detail but then GN wasn't working. It's below if you want to read it:

the number and type of price promotions in all retail outlets including supermarkets and convenience stores and the out-of-home sector (including restaurants, cafes and takeaways).

Not really bothered about this, partly because I don't find such things a problem, and partly because I'm not convinced such things are effective.

2. Significantly reduce opportunities to market and advertise high-sugar food and drink products to children and adults across all media including digital platforms and through sponsorship.

Alongside this I think we need more education to both children and adults about how to resist/be impervious to advertising – greater emphasis in education on critical thinking skills.

3. The setting of a clear definition for high-sugar foods

Yes, but I'm surprised this is felt necessary as I've always found it very easy to recognise high-sugar foods.

4. Introduction of a broad, structured and transparently monitored programme of gradual sugar reduction in everyday food and drink products, combined with reductions in portion size.

Education would (and already does to some extent) cover that.

5. Introduction of a price increase of a minimum of 10-20% on high-sugar products through the use of a tax or levy such as on full-sugar soft drinks, based on the emerging evidence of the impact of such measures in other countries.

Can someone point me to this "emerging evidence", please.

6. Adopt, implement and monitor the government buying standards for food and catering services across the public sector, including national and local government and the NHS to the ensure provision and sale of healthier food and drinks in hospitals, leisure centres etc.

Monitoring govt is always a good idea but govt does not actually run the NHS on a day-to-day basis does it? Re food in hospitals, yes it should be good food but we'd need to spend more to achieve that. Leisure centres? Dubious.

7. Ensure that accredited training in diet and health is routinely delivered to all of those who have opportunities to influence food choices in the catering, fitness and leisure sectors and others within local authorities.

Don t know about elsewhere, but the schools I've known already do this and always have, both primary and secondary.

8. Continue to raise awareness of concerns around sugar levels in the diet to the public as well as health professionals, employers, the food industry etc, encourage action to reduce intakes and provide practical steps to help people lower their own and their families’ sugar intake."

Yes. No.8 sums up my preferred approach: education. It takes longer than quick, imposed fixes but I think it is more effective in the long-term, which is what we really want.

I heard one of those on Breakfast this morning. They all seem to hide behind the "calories" nonsense. "It would only reduce calories by..."
Yes, but it would be the harmful, empty calories you would be reducing, not good calories from healthy foods which would sustain and nurture the body.
All calories are not the same!

There was some awful man being interviewed on Channel 4 news last night. I missed the introduction but it was clear he had a 'commercial interest'.

He came across as the Donald Trump of the sugar industry, a loathsome man denying everything and trotting out the same old excuses and clichés.

Sugar tax aside, Bags, what do you think of the rest of the recommendations from the PHE report?

Found this yesterday: @DegenRolf: Providing consumers with easier-to-process nutrition information increases purchase intentions for UNHEALTHY foods. Couple of studies published by Springer. As someone commented on Twitter: "We're such a rational species".

I also read that we pay VAT on sugary "sports" drinks already as they are not categorised as food. If that is true, there's already a tax on sugar.

jings vegetables?

Here here - or rather hear hear to the list above. It annoys me when companies like Waitrose do promotions on products like Crunch Nut Cornflakes. In fact it annoys me that confectionary, in the form of products like that, is marketed as a suitable - and even healthy - breakfast for kids. "Added vitamins" "multigrain" and other words. You know the sort of thing...

Here are the findings of the leaked report from Public Health England.
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/22/sugar-report-delayed-jeremy-hunt-tax-radical-action-obesity
Apparently the government wants to delay publication. The article is worth reading in full.

"The eight recommendations are:

1. Reduce and rebalance the number and type of price promotions in all retail outlets including supermarkets and convenience stores and the out-of-home sector (including restaurants, cafes and takeaways).
2. Significantly reduce opportunities to market and advertise high-sugar food and drink products to children and adults across all media including digital platforms and through sponsorship.
3. The setting of a clear definition for high-sugar foods to aid with actions 1 and 2 above. Currently the only regulatory framework for doing this is via the Ofcom nutrient profiling model, which would benefit from being reviewed and strengthened.
4. Introduction of a broad, structured and transparently monitored programme of gradual sugar reduction in everyday food and drink products, combined with reductions in portion size.
5. Introduction of a price increase of a minimum of 10-20% on high-sugar products through the use of a tax or levy such as on full-sugar soft drinks, based on the emerging evidence of the impact of such measures in other countries.
6. Adopt, implement and monitor the government buying standards for food and catering services across the public sector, including national and local government and the NHS to the ensure provision and sale of healthier food and drinks in hospitals, leisure centres etc.
7. Ensure that accredited training in diet and health is routinely delivered to all of those who have opportunities to influence food choices in the catering, fitness and leisure sectors and others within local authorities.
8. Continue to raise awareness of concerns around sugar levels in the diet to the public as well as health professionals, employers, the food industry etc, encourage action to reduce intakes and provide practical steps to help people lower their own and their families’ sugar intake."

Trouble is, I've got loads of apples and pears raining down around me from our fruit trees, and they just cry out to be made into crumbles. And what substitute is there at lunch for toast? What else can I put under my melted cheese?

I mean PM the names of those recipes.

Well done mcem and that bit about walking past the foods you're not allowed is just what I do.

Good luck Wilma I hope you find this suits you and DH. My DH finds this so easy to follow, provided we focus on what he can eat. Some of the recipes from the Hairy Bikers Diet book make great low-carb meals. If you want I can PM them to you tomorrow when I go to my house.

gettingonabit, I totally agree with your post and I think it agrees with what I've been saying all along, that personal responsibility is the important thing. If someone doesn't want to or can't change their eating habits that's a free choice but they shouldn't be blaming anyone else, or the government, or food producers.

jings, I agree that some fats are not good, but I probably disagree with you about which ones.

Thanks, Mamie but I honestly don't think I deserve credit for something I genuinely believe has been fairly straightforward and would encourage anyone else to do the same.
I' d say - don't see it as dieting and sacrificing, just a change of eating habits.
Looking forward to the gym and will update in a few weeks.
I do appreciate the pat on the back though!

Thanks for all the replies since my post last. I was grumpy, tired and feeling sorry for myself because I got stung by a bee yesterday. Sitting on a bench by the river at Stoneleigh Abbey enjoying the sunshine after a lovely afternoon tea treat from a friend - and a bee stung me on the chest. Unbelievable.

We had decided (me and DH) to go with the low carb approach, so I will check out the thread recommended. All my life I've thought I would find the answer to anything troubling me in a book - but procrastination is my middle name. I want to cook more meals from scratch, so maybe I will get tips from other GNs. Thanks peeps.

Or even brilliant.....

Beilliant news mcem.

I read an article the other day about people eating late at night [which is what I tend to do sometimes]. I thought it was well known that people do this but it seems it has only just been 'discovered'. Our relationship with food is a very complicated one and once we feel a certain item is banned we seem to crave it even more. Can't help but feel that even going on one diet in our lives messes up our relationship with food for the rest of our lives. I worked with a doctor for many years who lectured everyone about overeating; he was thin as a rake but ate copious amounts of chocolate and never understood why every wasn't like him. When we go away for a week or so I'm expected to be the cook and eat far more than I usually do. Even so, all I do is cook a meal that consists [usually] of meat/fish, vegetables/salad and potatoes [probably what most people eat in the evening] and I always put on half a stone during our stay.

Ps I knew I couldn't expect miracles and wasn't prepared to suffer so I have a glass of red wine every other evening but no cravings at all for sweets or chocolate!

I think it is almost impossible to exclude all carbs, Jings, but you can get all you need from vegetables. I eat fruit as well.
The low-carb diet includes good fats from natural sources. I get most of mine from olive oil, fish oil and some dairy.

6 weeks ago, after reading through the 'low-carb' thread, I decided go change my eating habits.

All I've done is cut out bread, cake, biscuits and potatoes and eat a whole lot more veg and fruit. I still have some carb's first thing in the morning - porridge or granola.

Now I feel ready to get back go the gym and tone up a bit.
I didn't weigh myself as I started and haven't since but I did measure round waist and hip bones as I knew that's where the flab had developed.
Measuring those areas now I find I have lost a total of 5/6 inches.

I simply walk past all the foods I don't eat. It's easy as I'm only catering for myself and it's obvious that if I don't have them in the cupboard I won't eat them.

I am surprised and relieved at how easy it has been.

Sorry that was meant for thatbags.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Eating conscientiously should not be difficult. But putting theory into practice isn't so easy even for the most mindful of eaters. I've been limiting food starving for years. It never gets easier. I'm not even thin. I like food, as indeed do most people. I like alcohol. I don't stuff cakes or eat huge meals. I do MFP and log most of what I eat. It's a massive effort and it's for life. I consider myself to be reasonably well-educated about food. Counting calories is the only thing that works for me.

However most people are not like this. You are, I suspect, preaching to the converted. There are millions of people who do not wish for their lifestyles to be determined by the food they eat. They do not wish to limit alcohol, and enjoy sweet things. They enjoy going out for a curry and order every fat-laden option on the menu. They may not have the motivation, or the discipline, to change their lifestyle even if they have the knowledge and understanding to do so.

Hmmmmm all this talking about sugar makes me want to go and open a can of condensed milk and eat it by the spoonful