Child Mental Health

I worked in CAMHS in the 90's as well TriciaF. I was part of a diverse and dedicated team of nurses, psychiatrists and specialist practitioners. The psychiatrist who supervised my work specialised in what we called 'naughty boys' and he diagnosed as having ADHD or attachment difficulties.

I learned huge amount whilst working on the unit, not least how to engage resistant parents, how not to criticise loving parents who were struggling and also that some children are easier to parent than others. Our local unit is still effective. The grand children of close friends are both in treatment there. One for an anxiety disorder, the other for an eating disorder. Nope, they haven't been emotionally or otherwise abused. I suspect the anxiety disorder is party down to genetics and the eating disorder triggered in part by sharing life with a suicidal sibling.

I'm a fan of peer group support and worked with parenting groups as well as children's groups, both groups much more likely to engage with work towards change than they would have done if individual work had been the only thing on offer.

It's expensive to offer proper psycho type therapies but so is prison, adult mental health needs etc etc. We really should invest more in our children.

Maybe I have rose coloured spectacles, but the service I worked for gave very comprehensive provision. We had 2 psychiatrists, one for young children and one for adolescents, both very child-centred. They each had a residential unit.
When I left there were 9 psychologists, mainly involved with learning problems, but spending as much time with parents and teachers as with the child. 4 social workers, one who specialised in child abuse.
Plus an excellent unit for children with speech and language problems, and 4 full time office staff.
All coordinated by the Senior Ed. Psych.
This was in the '90s - such a shame if it no longer exists - I wonder why?
As I mentioned before, I'm a fan of peer group support - children would often accept advice from their friends rather than addults.

I have had such bad experiences of CAMHS in different parts of the country, both as a client (family member) and as part of the team. It would be lovely to hear that they sometimes deliver the goods!

I remember one of the child psychiatrists I worked for really did not seem to like children at all. During family sessions he would refer to the child as "the member."

I've just re-read Mermaids48 original post, and she asks what can be done to help children with problems in the absence of professional help.
It's difficult to suggest something, because there's always the need to recognise really serious signs, which might be missed by amateurs.
I suppose parents could get together to form their own support group, suggesting ways to help eachother's children. But you couldn't expect this approach to work with the children themselves, without adult supervision. Even adolescents.

It's good to see some positive comments about psychology/psychiatry/psychotherapy involvement. The town I worked in funded one child psychologist who was based in the hospital team but she was available to social workers to consult about children who were involved with sw but whose parents wouldn't/couldn't engage with CAMHS . It worked very well because it also had a training role in expanding the sw knowledge and understanding of positive intervention with children and families.

Many people referred to ASD services in later life had earlier been given diagnoses of social phobia. Psychologists and psychiatrists tend to look for what they know and if they don't know about Autism they just list odd symptoms rather than look at the whole picture and find out more from the families.

I would like to say, they never did cure his odd eating disorder. His first girl-friend at uni did that!

They did help him in his school life though.

That's good. Hope it goes well.

It is strange that you mention social phobia jings as one possible explanation has been Social anxiety disorder. This was new to me but it obviously has been around a long time. School are helping more now and are talking about a "phased return" .

When I mentioned 'psychotherapist' earlier, I meant psychiatrist. Sorry.

Twenty years ago a child would be referred by the gp to a psychologist, who would be the one to decide on the appropriate course of action. In our case it was a course of meetings with a child psychiatrist who tackled his odd eating disorder by treating him for social phobia (!), and son thought she was amazing. I doubt if things have changed that much. Probably just been given a new name.

Sorry for leading you up the garden path before annsixty. Was posting too late in the evening!

That was an unbelievably huge leap of the imagination for a little boy, Luckygirl.

Did he grow up to become a millionaire from writing mottos for Christmas crackers?

Hoping your GD gets some appropriate help soon, Annsixty.
As I've said on here before, I don't know why child and adolescent psychiatric services don't offer group therapy. As mental health problems usually take much longer to treat than physical ones, (often lifelong) , individual treatment is difficult to obtain.
Of course you need a qualified person to run the group - I used to help a psychiatrist with an adolescent group, for several years.
And I was a member of a support group myself for a while, for an ongoing problem. Found it very helpful.

I worked with a psychotherapist who had been seeing one little boy for years - she got him to paint lots of pictures, and one he did of tulips was interpreted by her as indicating he had missed out on breast-feeding. Get it? - no neither did I! Apparently it represented two lips. Who'd have thought?

His incessant soiling still continued and his single mother had no washing machine - child was then 9. I took her on one side and suggested she go back to the GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician, which she did. The lad had something wrong with his bowel, which had existed all along.

I am sure there are some good psychotherapists out there - but be careful what you wish for!

The central problem with CAMHS services is that they will not see a child unless they will "engage" - in other words if they just sit and sulk during a consultation or tinker with their phone, then this is a good reason to strike them off the books and do nothing. I am not suggesting that a child like that is easy to deal with, but that sort of behaviour is part of their problem and the services should be geared up to understand that and to persevere. They do do not have the resources - child fails to "engage", then off the books they go in order to treat a more biddable child.

You do not need a psychotherapist as such but a well trained counsellor with CBT experience can help.

My niece had a a lot of issues with regard to the behaviour and attitudes of her father and eventually did well with the help of a very good counsellor who discussed everything with my parents and arranged for my sister and her teenaged children to move back to them.

My niece had become very disruptive in class and had a lot of difficulties along the way but the support she got back then made a big difference to her future. She has ended up in a very well paid job.

Where does one get a referral to a psychotherapist?

There is no reason why a psychotherapist shouldn't be helpful to a young person suffering with emotional difficulties. Every reason to believe that he or she would be of help.

CAMHS is certainly a non starter for most children even if you can get an appt. This is not just my family's experience.

SATS are obviously being handled very badly in some schools. Not what the government meant them to be about.

I doubt that they are suffering in larger numbers than before. It's just that it's diagnosed more these days. Probably because there are drugs available to treat it.

I would go back a stage and ask why children are suffering from mental ill health in greater numbers. I would suggest that the pressure that is brought to bear on them at school now from a very young age might have something to do with it.

The whole of my DGD's class is in a terrible state about their SATs; not just the children but also the teachers. DGD has been worrying about it for over a year and has sleepless nights.

I would also suggest that schools should teach relaxation/yoga and other strategies for dealing with stress. This has now been introduced at our local primary school. If the system is going to put them under stress then it has a duty to help them deal with it.

CAMHS is a bit of a joke in most areas now - in one area they have no staff; but a very nice lady answers the phone and tells you there are no staff.

Thank you ,Crafting my D is a fighter. She also knows all about early intervention as she has a degree in early learning and works in that field. However ones own teenager is a challenge. The parents separated 18 months ago and this is a major factor in the situation. It is so common now that it is disregarded in children's mental health yet we dealing with it know what a problem it is.
She meets with a counsellor tomorrow and he has told my D that if he can't deal with it he will be able to point the way to someone who can.
This is such a major thing in all our lives we are desperate for help.

annsixty I do hope you get some positive results for your GD. Possible reason for not going privately (apart from the cost!!) is that CAMHS and schools do not normally take account of what private places say.

My best advice to you (from someone who has been there) is to encourage the parents to push and push and keep calling and fighting as hard as they can to get some help. Hopefully once you are in the system, help will be given. It's just getting seen in the first place that takes such a long time.

Its not just children who need mental health services to be massively improved!

My initial response to the question 'what can be done to support our children and young people in the absence of services such a CAMHS' is to suggest lobbying your MP and thinking very carefully before you vote in local and national elections. We need a government that prioritises the needs of our children. That means we need family centres that are supported rather than closed and mental health services/psychological/psychiatric services available for children and their families.

Children from Cornwall are being cared for in psychiatric units in the north east evidently, because there are simply no appropriate services for children in crisis in their home area.

I have a GD in real need of some help.
Her school and GP have been trying to get it for months now and now finally she has an appt for tomorrow with a counsellor.
She really needs more than this and we hope this will lead to it.
Her GP has advised my D not to go down the private/ paying route. I can only speculate why.
The reason she has waited so long is that the service is so over stretched so what are we doing to our young people that the need is growing at the rate it is.?
The first question asked is "is she / he a suicide risk" if the answer is no then they go to the bottom of the list.
Dealing with it is horrendous.