Immunisations

Two more comments on my earlier contribution : due to the fact that my brother had had a few epileptic type seizures , we were advised not to immunize against whopping cough. My son contracted this at twelve years old and was very nearly hospitalized , it was a very worrying time and took over a year for a complete recovery. Before that we lived in New York for a few years and both my children attended nursery and primary school there. In order to be admitted to any educational establishment one had to present an up to date vaccination certificate.

Yes Elegran as babies move from the near-sterile environment in the uterus they are covered in the bacteria and other micro-organisms that dwell in the mother's lower regions. These include important gut bacteria. There is a concern that babies born by a more sterile route, via caesarian, might be losing out on this important experience. They also pick up lots of important and useful bacteria from the mother's skin during feeding. Not to mention the myriad of bacteria viruses and fungal spores that are around every home. The immune systems of babies need this stimulation of a wide variety of micro organisms in order to develop normally. Immunologists talk about the immune system being "trained". There is also evidence that children who grow up in a more bacteria-rich environment such as a farm are less likely to develop allergies, an over reaction of a part of the immune system. The immune systems of babies are naive but poised and ready to experience and learn about micro-organisms.
This is why I think that the idea that has been proposed that multiple vaccinations are harmful is not based on anything other than the need of anti-vaxxers to come up with alarmist arguments against vaccination.

People who do not have their children immunised not only risk their child getting a potentially life threatening illness but causing an epidemic - this happened not that long ago with mumps.

It's selfish and dangerous

Being born in Jersey, my children were not allowed out of hospital as neonates without the BCG as TB was endemic. They were unwell for some time with suppurating sores on their arms but I was glad to have it done.

On the other hand, because of problems with me, it was recommended that DC were not vaccinated for whooping cough. I was dependent on the herd immunity - i was furious to find how many people in the UK at the time [late 70s] were against the vaccination. Mercifully, they didn't catch WC.

I'm a great one for having every vaccination/immunisation going. they are recommended for a reason!!!

So your GC was unwell for 3 days and had a hard lump, so what surely that is far better than getting the illness.

Immunisations developed over many decades for reasons already stated in the forum. It is a good to investigate & make ones own decisions but do it with all the facts, children who cannot have some immunisations for health reasons are protected by children who have had the immunisations, that is why we need well into the 90% of children to be immunised.
Having been involved with families who lost children from some of these diseases, the heartache is immeasurable
I am a retired health visitor. We are either professional busy bodies, nosey Nora from the Welfare or the best thing since sliced bread!

I was one of the first polio vaccine kids and knew kids crippled by polio. I wasn't sure when my babies were small whether they should have the various jabs, but overall glad I did (the illnesses were pretty horrible), although DS1 is
autistic spectrum - don't know whether naturally or due to vaccination. But my problem isn't with this question; it's the total lack of immunity to bugs which in my day we just ignored and got on with everyday living. I was brought up that if I was alive, I was fit for school/work.

That's not the same as having a cocktail of live vaccines injected directly into your bloodstream though all in one go.

Yes, meeting various pathogens etc., in the environment does allow most babies to adjust to it all over a period of time

When babies first emerge into the world, they meet a cocktail of hundreds of different things to develop their own antibodies to. Their first months are a series of adjustments to it all.

They most definitely are a 'cocktail' luckygirl when three are being administered in one dose, then often another two separately given at the same visit.

There ought to be an option for parents, who are willing to pay, to have the MMR (taking that as just one example) to have these administered separately by their own GP practice, rather than having to have them done privately.

I worked in a special school for 25 years and saw what devastating effects meningitis can have!?

The fallacy that children are being given a "cocktail" of drugs unwisely is total nonsense. Each and every one of us is daily subject to millions of bugs - our bodies can deal with them.

The vaccines do not contain more harmful bugs than those around us all the time as they have been "attenuated" - i.e. their virulence has been reduced, whilst still keeping them live enough to do the job of stimulating immunity.

There is no point at all in separating the doses and it would render the programme hugely more expensive than it is now. The idea of separate doses is a total red herring - in the case of whooping cough it was being put forward by drug companies so they could make more money.

Please bear in mind that the NHS is trying very hard to save money - if immunisations did not do the job, you can bet your life they would stop giving them.

The concern I have is that very young babies seem to be given such a cocktail of drugs at the same time.
Wouldn't it be better to separate these immunisations?
If the MMR had been offered as single doses would not more parents have taken them up? Just a thought. . .
Our DD2 has rheumatoid arthritis. She spent a year in Germany part of her degree just after the wall came down. Folks with TB were crossing the wall and spreadingTB-it was a worrying time as her immuno system is compromised both by her illness and the drugs she has to take to function. Mercifully she's OK.
Eldest DGD worked as a cleaner in local hospital and had lots of extra jabs that she wouldn't normally have had.

I had a triple booster last week
I cut my hand last week. The last time I had a tetanus booster was about 35 yrs ago I think. So the nurse gave me the triple booster, because that's how the tetanus comes (not on its own).

Yes we've just paid to have GD given Men.B vaccine as they fall outside the free age range.

Speldnan, about Men B vaccine - my daughter just paid £180 to have my GD vaccinated as she didn't fall into the 'free' age range. Sore arm, probably because the pharmacist did it rather than the nurse who does loads. No other reaction. Booster still to come.

'Interesting thread. It's fascinating to read of people's experiences and interesting that homeopathy is now considered a 'quack' medicine. It is the same as a vaccine - treating like with like. There is so much we don't know about the human body, It's so good to read of Splednan and her daughter doing some thorough research into conventional vaccines.'

Oh dear lord. Homeopathy is in no way shape or form 'the same as a vaccine'. It is expensive water. And please, please, don't call extensive googling 'research'. As the older generation we should be supporting vaccinations not whipping up doubt about them, we are old enough to remember Iron Lungs for gods sake.

Bebe4r2 To quote the NHS site
www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/pneumococcal-vaccination.aspx
The pneumococcal vaccine protects against serious and potentially fatal pneumococcal infections. It's also known as the "pneumo jab" or pneumonia vaccine.

Pneumococcal infections are caused by the bacterium Streptococcus pneumoniae and can lead to pneumonia, septicaemia (a kind of blood poisoning) and meningitis. At their worst, they can cause permanent brain damage, or even kill.

People over 65 only need a single pneumococcal vaccination, which will protect for life. It is not given annually like the flu jab.

So you gave yourself lifetime protection from a wide selection of infections. Older people are particularly vulnerable to septicaemia, especially after surgery, and one of my family, a very fit and healthy 90 year old died of septicaemia after needing surgery for a relatively minor injury following a car accident.

When you had the pneumo jab you were doing yourself a favour.

There are loads of countries where TB is endemic and their citizens can come here. There's a list of countries whose citizens must produce certified evidence that they do not have TB before the can visit here. There are also, believe it or not, counties in the EU where TB is endemic and their citizens enjoy freedom of movement. Google TB endemic to see the list. The countries that account for 80% of the world's TB cases include several that are popular, trendy holiday destinations so make sure you're vaccinated if you like visiting far east countries...

Oh get the flu jab folks! Please!
I've been paying for about the last 20 years but this year - guess what? At last i qualify for a free one I've only had one "flu like illness" in all that time - there are of course some viruses that are not covered by the jab.
Swine flu affected older age groups a lot less than younger. Could have been that something similar did the rounds when we were kids - or maybe it was all the immunity built up by all those flu jabs.
If you are interested you can look on the WHO website to see which variants we are getting each year. This year it is:
It is recommended that trivalent vaccines for use in the 2016-2017 influenza season (northern hemisphere winter) contain the following:

an A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Hong Kong/4801/2014 (H3N2)-like virus;
a B/Brisbane/60/2008-like virus.

I think they are named after where they are identified as a new strain.

Anya, I've been on both sides of this debate. There's risk in everything. There's risk in crossing the road. It's percentages that count, & in the very very rare cases a child has been vaccine damaged then yes the authorities fess up & cough up.

My son is autistic. He was due his MMR booster when the Wakefield debacle was at its height. With no internet back then I was caught between a rock & a hard place. I didn't give him his booster. A couple of years back he asked me why, & when I explained, said, well what's wrong with being autistic? Well I have to admit, it's better than being DEAD isn't it?

As a child I had meningitis Which I was told I was lucky to pull out of I seemed to be healthy apart from partial deafness in one ear But in my teens I then started to have fits and in my 30s I then was medically retired from work after a stroke all this was all put down to my meningitis aged 4 so would I have liked to have had the jab oh yes I would have loved too My advice have the jabs meningitis has changed my life

I do not think it is "a contentious issue" - the scientific evidence is unequivocal.

My strong objection to these sort of posts is that it creates fear where none need be and puts children at risk. The disaster of the spurious whooping cough vaccine scare should be enough to cause people to think hard about what they say.

My daughter as a baby caught whopping cough and she had had 2 of her jabs There was an outbreak in the town and the babies that ended up in hospital were the ones that the parents did not give the jabs .My husband aged then 8 had meningitis ,brain abscess and other things luckily he survived and then they did not know whether it was Men A or Betc

Funnily enough I've just read in the newspaper that Men b cases have fallen by 40% since the vaccination programme.
I understand your misgivings but I think on balance I'd go for the immunisation.

The pneumonia injection given by the NHS in Uk is for life if you are over 65, where did you hear it wasn't Bebe? Go on the NHS website and you will see. I m not a great advocate of flu injections but did have the pneumonia after a few people in my area died very suddenly including an acquaintance who died after about 3 days being ill and another two close friends who did recover but was very ill for a month in hospital