Immunisations

My son is a clinical microbiologist & his children have had all the vaccinations available. He is very passionate about it, however we are also moving into an era of having less and less antibiotics that might help seriously ill children and adults who might develop one of the diseases that vaccination would prevent. There is also a risk for people who are immunocompromised because of therapy they may be receiving and children who are too young to be vaccinated. Vaccination is essential.

Thanks everyone for the debate (albeit very one sided) I am well and truly shouted down!! As I did say (which most people conveniently ignored) I am not against immunisations at all and agree about their benefits and herd immunity etc etc but it doesn't hurt to research and question the preparations which are being injected into your babies and children. And obviously spurious websites and quack doctors should not be consulted! For the record I am completely anti Homeopathy which bears no relevance whatsoever to vaccines!
A contentious issue indeed but interesting to hear everyone's views.

I lived in France when all 3 children were small and vaccination was not a choice at the time, but almost compulsory. No crèche, school or college would accept a pupil without a properly completed "carnet de sante". Mine would have been 'done' regardless, but I thought it a great idea. When we returned to London, the younger 2 had a top up for meningitis. Then the vaccine for cervical cancer became available, but the girls had gone to live with Daddy who let them off having 'a nasty needle' (which they were fine with). Even though we no longer communicate I still worry that they might catch something that could have been prevented
Apologies for inaccuracy of latter injection name but I know what I mean!

TB is on the increase in Birmingham and they have stopped immunisation there, a very dangerous move I think.

Scarlet Fever is now easily treatable with antibiotics. It used to be a killer in the 1920s but no longer. This is one disease that has become mild following improvements in nutrition and social circumstances.

Improving social circumstances including better nutrition will not prevent your GDs from getting whooping cough [there is a lot of it around at present, and it is nasty], rubella [can cause nasty congenital malformations and death]. measles [brain damage which is permanent] and mumps [not so bad but worth having the vaccine]. Polio needs no further comment, as it has not yet been eradicated globally. Meningitis is uncommon but not rare, and can kill, or cause permanent damage. All the vaccines mentioned above have an efficacy >90-95%, except for mumps which is a little lower, and W cough [about 75-80%]. Meningitis B vaccine does produce antibody and is effective, though what % is not yet known. It was and still is the commonest meningococcal serotype still causing disease. Nevertheless, all vaccines also have side-effects, but everything good also has side-effects, like driving a car, and even gardening!! etc.

I am with all those saying have the injections, I lost weeks of schooling with the so called childhood illnesses at one time having Scarlet Fever followed by Chickenpox. I was amazed to read Scarlet Fever is on the increase again, pity there isn't a vaccination for it. Please have what is available.

I saw a programme recently with a young child who'd had meningitis and had all their limbs amputated. Sepsis is a side effect and a fast killer.
One of the issues with not vaccinating is that it leaves all the pre vaccine kids in a vunulrable position.
With my eldest daughter there was a great furore re whooping cough. I couldn't make up my mind whether to risk getting her vaccinated. She played with neighbours older kids. I didn't suspect they had not had any vaccines and my 2yr old got whooping cough. It was a nightmare time and I still feel guilt that my hesitancy has left her with lungs in a weaker state. When my second daughter was born I got her vaccinated at the first possible date.
Like others have said we are lucky to have these vaccines what's a sore arm and temp for a couple of days over losing all your limbs and possibly dying?
60+yrs ago my elder sister contracted tb meningitis with sepsis rash. Docs told my mum she would likely due. Fortunately they had a new anti biotic, streptomyacin, and said they would give her that as it was just being made available. That drug, and the fact that the disease was spotted so early saved her. She took a year learning to walk again. The drug damaged her hearing but she is still around today.

Some parents are choosing not to have their children vaccinated as they feel that the diseases have been eradicated. That is because everyone used to have the vaccinations. Measles can be deadly as can tetanus, its so important to be vaccinated. Everything will be back on the increase, some already are. They may get a swollen arm for a couple of days and be a bit unwell but nothing like they would be if they contracted the disease itself.

i had whooping cough as a child and suffered from it - now having a "weak chest" and, as soon as i get a cold, get a chest infection.
somehow i am naturally immune to mumps - my mother took me to several mumps parties when i was little and i failed to catch it. however, although my daughter has inherited this immunity, my son didn't. he was rather poorly when he had it. this was before the injections that are given routinely now.
my brother somehow didn't get chicken pox until he was 20 and spent his 21st birthday in hospital extremely ill as it had gone down inside his throat which then swelled up so he couldn't breathe.
both my children have had all the injections which were available to them at the time - i even asked my gp if my daughter could have a smallpox one but was assured that it was unnecessary.
thankfully all my grandaughters [all 4 of them] have had or will have their injections ............ my oldest grandaughter will hopefully be having the meningitis one sometime soon.
meningitis is a terrible disease - when i was in my late twenties i had the viral form which, fortunately, wasn't as serious but i lost two weeks of my life in hospital when i was barrier nursed. and i then spent a month recuperating. if an injection stops someone else getting it then i'm all for it.
again, as an adult i had rubella which wasn't a pleasant experience so early immunisation is essential.
i'm sorry but i have no time for anyone who thinks that immunisation is not for their children - they probably think that they'll be ok but regret it if their children then go on to develop something which will affect them for ever.

Sound like minor symptoms compared to disfigurement or death due to the illness itself.

So relieved to read the (generally) sensible replies to this thread. Although likening homeopathy to immunisations is unbelievable, and indicates the level of understanding out there.

Our society seems to be averse to risk or short term discomfort of any kind, even at the cost of preventing far greater long term pain and harm. A good dose of the reality of life, rather than a cosseted existence is needed. We are so lucky in the UK for so many reasons.

My generation remembers the horror of polio outbreaks , my brother and I both had measles and were terribly ill. A friend's brother was blinded by measles. My mother's generation had the worry of diphtheria , measles and t.b. My grandmother's generation had one immunization and that was for smallpox. Her generation of children were at risk of everything else. We only ever hear the odd bad reaction to an immunization not of the millions of children that don't have one. The only childhood illness children seem to get these days is chicken pox , unpleasant for the child but incredibly rare to be anything else. Do we really want to go back to say Victorian times when a family could lose several of their children. Just go into any old graveyard to see evidence of that. As another contributor has said, ' just get on with it '.

Now more than ever all children should be vaccinated no question as a paediatric nurse for a long time too many children are still dying or left disabled by these infections which are so preventable with vaccinations . With so many more children entering the country the herd immunity is low every unvaccinated child is at risk . As one gransnetter said better a sore arm and a fever for a short while than these devastating illnesses or death . Don't listen to the scaremongers

Apologies for spelling your username incorrectly, Speldnan.

Hi Spledan, it is very important that all children have their vaccinations if they are able to. One reason for this is to protect the child, but another is to maintain 'herd immunity'.

When we vaccinate enough children we finally reach a point where it becomes much more difficult for a particular disease to spread, and sometimes we can eradicate a disease completely - in regards to the latter that doesn't mean that the disease won't come back if we stop vaccinating. Bacteria and viruses can still exist in water, soil, faeces e.t.c. When we reach the point where it becomes much more difficult for a disease to spread, this is known as 'herd immunity'.

'Herd immunity' is very important because it helps to protect those who can't be vaccinated. For example, they may be too young, have a health condition, or on rare occasions, are allergic to something added to the vaccine (not the vaccine itself). For individuals who can't be vaccinated, 'herd immunity' is the only protection that they have.

'Herd immunity' also helps to protect those who are immunocompromised, i.e. have a weakened immune system. For these individuals, particularly those with a very weakened immune system as a result of a health condition or medication, an infection, even one that may be seen as a relatively minor infection can make them seriously ill, leave them with permanent disabilities, or kill them. In order to try and protect these individuals we need to keep the spread of infection under control and infection rates as low as possible. One of the ways in which we do this is by maintaining 'herd immunity'.

If we don't vaccinate enough children, 'herd immunity' is lost and those who can't be vaccinated or have weakened immune systems will no longer be protected.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation and scaremongering about vaccines on the internet, and this information doesn't tend to come from reputable or trustworthy sources.

I can understand why you are so concerned that your grandchild was unwell after the vaccination, but a fever after the Men B vaccine is quite common. Also, it is much better than the alternative - serious illness, permanent disability or worse.

If you haven't read it already, NHS Choices has some excellent information on the Men B vaccine that will hopefully help to put your mind at rest: www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/meningitis-b-vaccine.aspx

Where's Anya? who usually gives us an informed opinion on this sort of subject.

Hear, hear Luckygirl! A few days of discomfort is far better than the invisible scars left by a disease...I've had sight problems all my life due to measles. The vaccine hadn't been invented seventy years ago. These moaners who think they know better than the medical researchers make me sick...perhaps they'd prefer a deaf/blind child with missing limbs?

I wholeheartedly agree with Luckygirl, and I too feel the asterisks coming on when child vaccination is questioned.Anyone who has lived through the horrifying Wakefield controversy in the late 90s surely can't fail to see that when significant numbers of selfish people opt out of mass vaccination, they put not only their own children at risk but also large numbers of other people's too.
Wiki puts it succinctly: 'The claims in Wakefield's 1998 'The Lancet' article were widely reported;vaccination rates in the UK and Ireland dropped sharply,which was followed by significantly increased incidence of measles and mumps, resulting in deaths and severe and permanent injuries.'
Wakefield is still peddling his quackery in the US having been totally discredited in the UK. We must hang on to this most important community action in these selfish times.

My aunt was blind in one eye as a result of childhood measles. I remember being immunised at school for diphtheria, with boosters every so often. I had a friend whose parents were anti-immunisation and her sister lost a year of school through diphtheria which she only just survived. I know my DC and GC have all been immunised for everything possible and GD1 for HPV which should be essential for everyone after puberty and that inclcudes boys, because they can pass on this virus even though they can't have cervical cancer.

Yes. It's what's called 'herd immunity'.

It's true that, because of improved living conditions, we don't suffer from as many diseases as did our ancestors. Children are not crammed six to a bed so are unlikely to transmit diseases like TB among themselves.

That said, the vaccination programme over years has been a big factor in improving health. Nevertheless, there are still families living in poor conditions. Measles, rubella, polio, whooping cough, meningitis, have not gone away and if 'herd immunity' was lessened, would be rife among the young.

That's is terrible polly - it is such a nasty illness and damaging in some. My sister developed a squint when she had measles as a child, which lead to surgery etc.
Oh dear Linda there is absolutely nothing similar about homeopathy and vaccination. It's been proved that those little sugar pills etc are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the "something" that is on the label. Vaccines on the other hand are based on good science and the way the immune system operates.
Lots of good sense spoken on this thread. There was recently quite a bad outbreak of measles in S Wales and one young adult died. Whooping cough is also a serious disease - sometimes a fatal one in newborns particularly so mums and toddlers being immunised is the best way to prevent this happening to newborns who cannot yet have the vaccinations done. (lots of distressing videos etc on web...) Steiner schools have a lot to answer for. They are more common in Australia and NZ and tend to attract unvaccinated families. A quick way to spread a disease is to put all the unvaccinated kids together!

LindaWW you are wrong to suggest that vaccines are the same as homeopathy. Time for you to do some research.

I agree with Luckygirl. We are lucky to have these vaccinations, and so many of the old diseases that killed children have been virtually eradicated. Everything in life is chance - there COULD be side effects blah blah, but we don't want to go back to the 'good old days' where polio and diptheria were rife. Meningitis is a horrible, deadly illness and could strike at any time, it's every parents' worse nightmare. Get it done.

As a fairly recently retired nurse, I cannot state more clearly that you should have all available immunisations when offered. TB is NOT eradicated in this country ! Many people are developing it, because people did not complete their treatment for it, so we are at risk. As stated by others, if you saw children with some of these illnesses you would want to protect your own from harm...meningitis can be a killer...a friend has a daughter who lost her hands and feet with it...so easy to pick up ! Be sensible...a few days of fever and a sore arm is nothing compared with the devastating consequences from a severe illness. I have nursed a toddler who went blind and deaf from severe TB meningitis in UK ! We are so lucky here to have a great Health Service !