Is the government trying to break the GP service?

Yogadatti obviously has issues with her own GP. She should take this up with her Practice Manager. She has complained about her GP before on GN in the same way. She then went on to tar all GPs with the same brush, as she has done before. There are working and former GPs on GN, so that could have been hurtful, although they are probably used to some of their patients' irrational rants. GG was quite right to challenge Yogadatti's post.

Maybe we could carry on with the discussion about the future of general practice and the government's intentions.

Think I'll go and walk the dogs...

And where's the 'vile propaganda'? I must have missed a whole page of this thread somehow...

Are you actuallytalking about Yogadatti's post of 19-Jan-17 11:14:14?

What on earth is 'unbelievably out of order' about it?

I thought she was unbelievably out of order in - do you actually realise what she was saying?

By culture I mean we all belong to different cultural tribes. Yours seems to look at the superficial - perhaps men opening car doors comes high on your list too. I did her the courtesy of assuming she meant what she was saying and replied to what she had suggested. Apparently I may not be what you perceive as rude while she may spread what I perceive as verging on vile propaganda.

I am about to have a visitor so am not going to be reading what you say. Perhaps you could be polite enough to let everyone get back to the discussion/debate rather than your view of etiquette which seems to be on the same level as Alan Bennett's mothers.

I agree with all your posts on this thread, Gracesgran.
Thank heavens for some sanity in a mad world.

Back later!

I probably disagree with 75% of your post GracesGran!

I will attempt it!

If people are put off posting perhaps they realise that this isn't the sort of discussion they want to be part of - all they want is people to agree with them. I am sure there are threads like that

No, if you were to look at other threads, you will often see ^How do you know that people are put off posting?

Because they put it many times on different threads.^ !

Courtesy would mean I make nice noises towards a poster if we were just lightly chatting over a cup of tea, good manners means I treat her like an adult if she joins in a debate on matters which will affect all our future

But in your own words you say you were curt. Who calls that good manners?
You mention different cultural views. Perhaps that goes for good manners in your culture?

Ankers as we seem to have completely different cultural views. Someone joined a discussion and put her point of view and it doesn't hold water within the discussion taking place. What I find it far worse than 'rude' is to attack a group of people simply in order to lay blame for a problem that they are neither causing nor do they have any power to alter. Perhaps if I suggest that the next step might be to make a film showing the doctors as rats destroying the NHS system you will understand that rudeness does not come into it; I find comments blaming disparate groups in order to make them the enemy rather than find the actual reason far, far worse than 'rude'.

We do all have a right to hold an opinion but if we choose to voice it, on a discussion forum, then we must accept that we will be challenged on what we put forward. This seems to be causing you so much angst that you are constantly making personal remarks about me and jumping to conclusions which actually seem to say that, however awful the post others make I may not challenge it or I will be open to descriptions of 'nasty' or 'rude'.

You obviously don't want to discuss the subject - you have gone on at such length about something outwith it ... and then return to go off topic again. If you carry on as you have threatened and make " more points later" I shall not bother to reply.

Courtesy would mean I make nice noises towards a poster if we were just lightly chatting over a cup of tea, good manners means I treat her like an adult if she joins in a debate on matters which will affect all our futures. I appreciate you do not see it like that but it is really not worth discussing further, for Yogadatti's sake if nothing else.

If people are put off posting perhaps they realise that this isn't the sort of discussion they want to be part of - all they want is people to agree with them. I am sure there are threads like that. They wouldn't attract me as I like the discussion ones that get at the facts - which is why I joined in this one.

Neither did I until I did a search.

I have no idea who Yogadatti is.

I actually thought she was yogagirl until yesterday, so never seen Yogadatti's posts as far as I know.

Pardon? I haven't a clue what you're on about.

FWIW, Yogadatti has a history of very negative comments about GPs. GracesGran's post was quite mild in comparison with some of Yogadatti's posts and the responses she has received.

Which actually rather means that you agree with my points each time and are unable to answer them properly]

How do you know that people are put off posting?

Because they put it many times on different threads.

And I am not going to fall for your, "ask me a question to get out of answering another" regime.

How do you know that people are put off posting? Do posters message you and say they're not going to post, because X is curt (or whatever)?

It's getting quite spooky, because a number of posters claim the same thing.

GracesGranMk2
I was not going to comment further on your "curt" replies, your words.
But the behaviour is not acceptable. And further more puts people off posting.
Which may actually be your intention.

Yogadatti was not getting at any doctor in particular, and not even a doctor's practice[and so what if she did if that was her opinion].

So who was she making a personal attack against?

Furthermore a poster does not have to come up with the solutions, in order to have the right to voice her opinion[which she did in a perfectly civil way].

Also,and I may have more points later, I would have thought that any or every doctor in the land is not 100% happy with the current GP system, and would welcome all the comments about the system they can get.

It's not just the elderly. Responsibility for people with learning difficulties was tranferred from the NHS to local councils a couple of years ago. AFAIK some funding was transferred, but it wasn't ring-fenced, so cash strapped councils have used some of it for other things. Public health was also transferred.

I watched the BBC news interviews with residents, the majority were opposed to the idea, though one clearly well off couple said they could afford it. They didn't seem to realise, whether they could afford it or not isn't the issue.

Our local council is in discussion with residents about closing 12 family centres. Children's and Adult Services have faced numerous front line cuts to staffing. The family centres are excellent and given levels of deprivation, drug, alcohol, domestic abuse etc etc are necessary. We have a Labour council, in a deprived northern borough so our cuts have been greater than those in southern wealthy boroughs. Why? I'm not claiming our council has always made the best decisions but i have attended a number of public meetings where the impact of austerity on all council services have been discussed. The managers from the services, along with the councillors responsible for each service have set out the reasoning behind the proposed cuts and been open to discussions offering alternative suggestions. It seems to be to be a cunning ploy, to put responsibility on local councils for cuts made by central government.

Pushing responsibility onto council tax is penalising the poorest boroughs - the ones that have the lowest council tax take, and the biggest need for social care because of the poverty of the population.

They are trying very hard to disintegrate this particular national service.

www.surreymirror.co.uk/surrey-county-council-leader-refuses-to-answer-questions-on-proposed-controversial-council-tax-rise/story-30072349-detail/story.html

Council leader refusing to answer questions on it.
There is a poll in this article, Rigby.

Good post Rigby and good luck with this. I cannot believe the government seems to have no plan to get to grips with this as an integrated, national service.

I'll have a vote in this referendum and I'll be voting against it for a variety of reasons. Partly because of the regressive nature of the council tax, partly because it's absolutely no way to address such a fundamental issue, partly because if it goes ahead, the government will wash its hands even more of social care funding and just blame SCC for any future failings in the provision of such care. My take on why it's happening is that the councillors are simply fed up with all the flak they are getting as a result of huge cuts to their budget and have thrown the gauntlet down. On the average band D property, it will be an increase of about £5 a week. No idea at the moment what the result will be but it will probably increase the turn out at the May local elections.

I agree with you both.

Couldn't agree more Iam. The idea that we get into difficulty because of an international banking crisis and then the NHS and systems designed to help the poorest and least able are slashed while the bankers get away with no repercussions has never struck me as right in any way whatsoever.

This idea sounds like either an attack on the government - unlikely as it is a Conservative council - or an attempt to stop a combined system being formed. The council tax is already the most regressive tax we have and I can see many being in great difficult with rises like this.

Yes it is a conservative council. 15% is a lot and I don't know whether it's a borough with more wealthy inhabitants than the one i live in.
I'm not sure how I feel about the suggestion that 15% is put onto council tax in order to improve social care, in one area.
The problems with social care are national, not confined to one region. I expect the residents of Kensington and Chelsea, for example, could easily afford an extra 15%. Many of them could probably afford to buy in social care for themselves. That wouldn't be the case in many other areas would it.
The austerity argument falls at the first fence for me because its being used to decimate public services, including the NHS
We need to invest in a combined health - social care system, which is properly funded, managed and staffed. It can't be beyond a country like ours to actually do this. We have the staff to do it, what seems to be lacking is a government committed to do so.