Malnutrition

annie does a nice warm bed and hot toddy beckon? And even a good book.

Iam, I send you my gratitude and my love X

MOnica, I speak out because many years ago I had severe post natal depression, I spent a little time in a mental hospital, it was a taboo subject for a long time after then women started to speak out . Same when AIDS exploded on the world, I remember visiting an elderly lady who had stopped going out, she was missed in church, she had become incontinent and was ashamed to speak of it.

My lovely daughter didn't choose to be an alcoholic ,it is an illness and I think probably the one illness which still causes lack of empathy and understanding. I know my daughter and know she would want to do anything to help others affected by this illness .

And in return I have received such kindness here .

I second mûnica's post. Different circumstances but my brother was dying and losing weight . The local hospice had some excellent ideas about adding powdered milk to cream soups and in this day and age of low fat everything they recommended small quantities of full fat milk etc. I found those small coffee cups with soup or rice pud or a shot glass of trifle was eaten and I could give quite a lot of food in very small quantities five times a day rather than have food left three times a day. Also frying bacon seems to wake the senses and a pot of broth or Jewish mums chicken soup quietly simmering inspires a little interest. God bless.

Annie, it's good to see the love and care being sent to you by other gransnetters. Some of us have direct experience of a loved one developing alcohol dependence. That chicken and egg thing about did the depression/anxiety push the loved one into drinking too much or did the alcohol cause the depression is a roundabout many will be familiar with.
You must be physically and emotionally exhausted with events around your daughter and your own house move. Al anon is the organisation that helps relatives, they have a dedicated phone line run by people whose relatives have become dependent on alcohol. It's easy for us to say don't blame yourself but I'm going to say it again. You are a loving mother, grandmother and friend. It's a testament that you have a proper relationship with your son in law and grandchildren. One of my close friends was guilt stricken because she hadn't realised her adult daughter was drink dependent. The guilt was exacerbated when a family meeting took place at the rehab centre, at which her granddaughter, then aged 15 expressed huge anger towards her mum.
Try and rest your mind Annie and do stop yourself ruminating on what you could/should have done differently. You have always done your best and you will continue to do so.
I do hope the community alcohol services are able to offer some kind of support. The GP may help with advice on diet. sending love x

Anniebach I so admire your courage to be able to talk so openly about your daughter's troubles. We love and trust our children which can make us both aware of little changes in them and also unable to see changes that go against the grain.

Sometimes it is not only finding food to appeal to the non-eater but also to make it look pretty. When I cared for my uncle who wasn't eating I would put food on a tray with a tray cloth, pretty china, and even though he thought himself uninterested in how things looked. he did eat more when it was well presented.

Could you eat with her? That can also increase intake.

Ankers, you are right on forgiveness , I did find verses in your kink I had forgotten, thank you. I do think my emotions are what most mothers would have, I would be the happiest person in the world if my daughter would heal, she and her daughters get to know each other again, i could leave this world a happy bunny , I know she and her husband still care for each other even though they live seperate lives , there has been no divorce , she refuses to agree to the family home being sold , she says it's the children's home, their place of safety to return to no matter where their careers take them.

Cloe, yes I am exhausted , the house move and my dsughter being in hospital , at least she was safe there ,

I am blessed I have close friends who are priests.

One of my nephews has taken my daughter to his home for a week, gives me time to do more unpacking and he is a Quaker so she will find peace with him .

Everyone has been so kind , thank you seems so inadequate to express what all your support has meant to me , from ice lollies to smoothies to eels , I thank you all

Annie not for the first time I wish I had a magic wand to fix things for someone who was tricked by alcohol into thinking it was their friend. You have done everything anyone could do, as has your son in law. In fact I think you have done more than many would or could have. Please don't blame yourself in any way, your love for your daughter shines through, your grandchildren are thriving in spite of the circumstances. It's so hard when we can't make things right for someone we love deeply. I'm no nutritional expert but the thoughts of others seem spot on to me, high calorie versions of everything, but small quantities so not to overwhelm. I am very disappointed there isn't more direct input being offered to your daughter, the alcohol/depression cycle is well known and my belief is until mood can be stabilised it's really hard for anyone to have the strength to be really motivated to manage an alcohol addiction. It's a shame the group therapy was impossible for your daughter, would she consider individual therapy, perhaps with a specialist counsellor or even via a CPN? I understand that you experience great support from your faith which is good to hear as it's so important that as a carer you also receive care. I'm so sorry things are so difficult, with this worry and your house move you must be exhausted. X

Dear Anniebach, you must be exhausted. No matter what age our children are we want to be able to solve their problems and feel guilty when we struggle. I am so glad you say you have God. In the last months of my husband's life I could not pray and 2 years later I still find it difficult except when I'm in church. Have you talked to your minister, priest, vicar? Our rector was wonderful and very good at asking me things that made it easy to talk. She works a lot in the local hospice. If you can talk to them they might have ideas you haven't thought of.
On a lighter note, would your daughter enjoy helping you make the ice lollies? It might encourage her appetite, it would be something to discuss and she would be helping you and not just be a passive part of everything.
I do hope things improve soon.

I keep coming back to this
She is caught in a vicious, dangerous circle and needs help to break a chain in the circle

I agree with you.

The rest of you seem to be coping remarkably well in the circumstances.
Sounds like whatever emotions the rest of you are feeling are very normal.

So glad she doesnt seem to have lost her faith.
The Bible way with guilt and being a christian, is if she has done anything wrong[and she may not have, the drink took hold], is to say sorry and ask God and people to forgive her.
If people were not to forgive her, that then becomes their problem and not hers.

Annie,

I'm really sorry to say this, but I think you need counselling too. Please don't take that as a criticism.

I've read your responses and I can imagine my own mother saying the same.

Please obliterate words like 'blame' or 'guilt' from your vocabulary.

I'm not going to post any more on this thread, but I'm happy to respond to messages.

Annie my heart bleeds for you, and is full of respect for your strength in helping with your DD's family. Please do not blame yourself for not seeing her dilemma earlier, or for being angry when she left rehab. It reads as though she still has a lot of love and concern about her family (including yourself) despite being in that dark place. It must be so worrying that she is alone with no structure to her day.

I have experienced healthcare staff seeing only the surface problems and not the underlying cause of them, in this case depression, and can appreciate your anger with them. I understand with depression that that single glass of wine, that makes you feel relaxed and good about yourself, can easily lead to needing more and more to find your only friend at the bottom of each glass or bottle.

Little and often seems to be the way with rebuilding nutrition levels - don't forget your own as well though

Anker, no her husband does not blame her, he like me know the real person .

Her daughters are angry with her but I believe anger is easier to cope with than feeling abandoned by one's mother, her son the eldest, tells his sisters how caring she was and what fun to be with. The girls have endured her being in court on a drunk driving charge plus other actions which has caused them embarrassment , this is a small town .

She is a Christian.

Mumofmadboys, I know of Christian counselling but I find confession helps me .

Grannypiper, I will ring the chemist tomorrow

There is Alcoholics Anonymous for the person and there is a family organisation too - they may be of help to you. I forget the name of the group but someone here will probably know. It might relieve you and/or give you some ideas of the way to go to speak if you people with similar experiences.

Annie its a bloody dark place for the whole family, i cant even begin to imagine how tough each day must be for all of you.
You say your DD eats ice lollies, try making ice lollies with angel delight and either jersey milk or full fat milk, i know its not much but every calorie counts.
When my sister was ill and not eating much we used Metatone, its a tonic from the chemist, you are supposed to dilute it but she used to just have a spoonful followed by a glass of water as its horrible if you mix it.
Regards
GrannyP[FLOWERS]

I'm so glad your grandchildren have done well, you've done brilliantly with them and it's nice you're close to them. Perhaps have a word with the chemist and see if there's anything your daughter could have as a meal replacement.

www.openbible.info/topics/guilt

Guilt
Does her husband blame her or hold things against her?
Do her children?

This is very personal stuff so not sure how much you want on here.

Is she a christian like yourself?

I am sending you this, but not at all sure how appropriate it is

Christians benefit from counselling too Annie! You may be able to have a Christian counsellor but it sounds as if you don't want this at present. I hope you have some close friends you can be honest with. How fantastic that your GC have done so well despite ups and downs in family life.

You have done well in very difficult circumstances, Annie. I'm sure your grandchildren are as proud of you as you are of them. I hope your daughter recovers.

Oops sorry, and Daphne I have no need for a counsellor, I have God and some caring and sensible advice from those who have posted today.

Daphne, three phyciatrists plus A A has told me alcohol is a depressant and will lessen the effect of antidepressants, also my daughter has had my unconditional love since I fell in love with her the minute she was born, but I have three grandchildren and hsve co parented with my son in law for seven years, one got through university with a first in economics , the second is in her second year st university and the third has her A'levels this year. When my dsughter left their home my grandsughters asked me to protect them from being taken to the nurture room for counselling, I did and even though they had to cope with their mother leaving and their father just a month later having a five month cancer scare I have been told by the school the three are well adjusted , very bright happy people. Unconditional love Daphne, my daughter asked me to take over the upbringing of her children as she had been brought up by me a one parent family and I have kept my promise

I'm sorry you are in such a difficult position. Regarding the food, when my husband was very ill, he didn't like the prescribed liquid food but would eat soup or the mini pots of custard or rice pudding.

I'm not disagreeing with you Welshwife. It just seems to me that the depression is the root of the problem and the original cause of the alcoholism.

I couldn't agree with Anya more. If you can afford it, it might be useful for you to see a counsellor - just to let off steam and tell the counsellor about your worries.

Please don't be angry with yourself or with your daughter. It's hard, but something I learnt about dealing with depression (my own) is not to be judgmental. I've tried to remove 'blame' from my vocabulary. Things happen, but there's no point blaming, because the only way is the future.

When I've been in a very dark place, I've blamed myself for the situation. I became hyper-sensitive about letting people down and not hitting my own targets. I had to learn that tomorrow really is another day.

The alcohol won't cancel out the effect of the anti-depressants. Some will make her feel quite ill, but most will make the effect of alcohol stronger, so she feels drunk more quickly. I have/had two alcoholic family members. I began to realise I was 'self medicating' on alcohol, which was why I stopped drinking alcohol completely. I suppose I was lucky, because I realised very early what was happening. ADs won't solve any problems, but they can lift your mood enough to allow you to start solving the problems yourself.

This is the time for unconditional love, which is going to bloody tough, but don't blame yourself if it's not enough and get all the help you can. xx

PS. And don't forget to come back here to let off steam or have an online cry. I'm sure we understand where you're coming from.

Do not be angry with yourself Annie. If it happened to another person you know you would pick up the signs more quickly, because you've seen them before. But when you've never come across alcoholic behaviour before it is impossible to realise what is happening the first time. Same with drugs and gambling. These people become very devious and expert at denial.

It's not just your daughter who needs support. What is your own support system like? Who is there for you?