Woeful mental health care ...

So the bottom line is that there needs to be more psychiatric hospitals/units which also have an emergency dept. Staff there are more likely to be understanding than receptionists at busy A&E depts.
My suggestion of some form of 'care passports' could include info on what to do in emergency.

Jane10 I completely accept that A&E don't have the necessary expertise and resources and can usually only 'treat' presenting symptoms, and at best patch up, give calming meds and a referral to MH services. My issue is when faced with someone suicidal / in dire need and an apparent wall goes up. Yes expertise is not readily available and typically there is no immediate access to a bed, but sometimesdesperate people are turned away. My niece was turned away recently and then tried to commit suicide. My son has been spoken to very unhelpfully at the admissions desk before now when he was already in crisis - putting him at further risk as he couldn't cope and left.

Understanding, manner of staff . attitudes to care ... there are training matters to address. And the entrenched 'You are not being treated under this health authority so go back to your provider' when someone has possibly gone as a last resort and may be miles from their 'local' support without means to get ot it.

I am not seeking to 'blame' anyone or have a moan for a moan's sake. We all know the money and provision is not there so it is a case of working with the little that is and trying to improve it. There are issues that could be addressed through training and policy changes.

Illtellhim 'Mindfulness' seems to be the latest 'stop - gap' while people are awaiting CBT / talking therapy. There is an online course that people are encouraged to sign up to - free through the NHS, but It is not right for everyone. However, people are being asked to try it and then 'see' if they still need counselling afterwards. Some people are already very mindful / spiritual people and it can seem very patronising and just mean a deferred wait for real help.

You're illness does not define you. Your strength and courage does.
Remember you were given this life because you are strong enough to live it.
Sometimes, the people around you won't understand your journey, they don't need to, its not for them.

The sad thing is, Mindfulness, is not for the any mental health illness but if you care for someone, maybe it's for you.

A.& E in a general hospital cannot treat mental health illnesses, my daughter has been admitted many times over the years, they treat the damage of an overdose or cut wrists then discharge the patient . The patient needs a psychiatric hospital and these are always full,and not in every town, this is why many with mental health problems end up in police cells in an emergency for their own safety .

A&E units are not set up for psychiatric emergencies. A harried medic is not able to deal with a long term personality disorder presenting as an emergency. A&E depts are most often in general hospitals which may not have access to psychiatric specialists. Personality disorder is hard to treat and its usually a question of management rather than some sort of emergency quick fix. Not what you want to hear I'm afraid but it's the view from the other side.
Is there an emergency clinic at your local psychiatric hospital? They often have an emergency outreach team but I can quite see how you'd be referred back to people who know your son and his condition.

'live' not 'libe'.

And as I have got started this morning ...

A&E AHYWHERE should take on a patient coming to them with MH needs in the same way that they would respond to anyone presenting a physical need. It is truly abhorrent that people who are in dire need are being asked to return to their 'home' health authorities.

I do think there needs to be better 'joining up' re health notes and easier access to them between health authorities. If someone with ANY 'libe' / ongoing health problem moves surgeries / local authorities, I wonder f there could be a prioritised system for sending their notes on.

A.n.other penny dropped yesterday as I was explaining for the umpteenth time that my DS has a diagnosed personality disorder ... that this ALWAYS needs highlighting and ALWAYS needs further explanation. It is important because he doesn't process information easily - and especially when he is stressed and is unable to articulate his needs - he often says ' I am feeling okay' - meaning 'that moment in time' when he has had terrible episodes. His notes could do with a 'special box' - maybe in red to highlight his specific needs.

And wouldn't it be lovely if doctors actually had enough time to read the notes before they see the patient...

That's great. There already are support groups for families of people with specific mental health issues so maybe an up to date directory of them available to families would be useful?
A system of updating medical notes online would help so that if a person became unwell out of area attending medical staff could easily access relevant info. Obviously the IT glitches would have to be ironed out.
A patient 'passport' with relevant info on it in case of emergency might be useful (but most patients would decline them I feel)
Well that's a start anyway.

I've written before about the effectiveness of support groups. For people with similar problems.
I've had experience of these from both sides, and can't understand why they don't seem to exist now. For one thing, they don't cost much to run. Individual therapy is costly and may need to continue for a long time.
That's my idea for something specific.

What exactly and specifically should 'they' do? I've already outlined in some detail why addressing the needs of this widely disparate group is so difficult.
What are the actual answers?
I'm not saying this to be annoying. I just know that having something specific to ask for helps.

It seems to be a complex and ongoing issue that the politicians do not wish to address. There are surely enough people out there who are affected either directly or indirectly. The problem is, of necessity people are acting individually. Perhaps together pressure could be brought to bear.

Well, NHS don't have any dynamic solutions . DS1 now has some 'holding ' meds prescribed. Hope to goodness that referral appointment comes through before they run out ...
At least this Dr was sympathetic.

Perhaps illtellhim has a more dynamic solution to offer?

Illtellhim - thanks for clarification, I couldn't make sense of your previous post.

I think a forum could have several benefits.
An outlet / emotional support for carers.
Info sharing / advice - we have learnt how the system /s work (and don't) over many years, others may need help to know what to do.
Info links for vital servcies
Maybe GN can get some 'expert' bloggers to write for discussion.

My son is a very good writer. Yesterday he wrote something that gave me new insight to his personal struggles. Sharing this sort of thing might also help others.

And if people can support each other, they may draw strength and feel more able to lobby / persist / advocate etc.

I'm not someone who simply wants to criticise and moan. I always try to think 'What can be done?' Training for staff needs to be better, particularly at surgery and A&E frontdesk / emergency services so that when vulnerable people contact services they are met with kindness and not abrupt / dismissive attitudes. And then there is information sharing between health authorities ... more awareness for doctors of what they are referring for and to so as to avoid unnecessary waits ...

But today, again, I am a bit run dry.
We now have an appointment some way away for a meds review ...good job we do have a car and some money for hospital parking!!!

Anniebach Sat 09-Sep-17 09:10:28
Imperfect27 Thu 14-Sep-17 19:09:15
Blinko Fri 15-Sep-17 17:19:40

Illtellhim, erm ...wrong thread?

Anniebach, I,m sure the time you're talking about was in between wars, you know, those upsets that engulf the whole world.

Again I'm going to ask :- What to do about it ?, and what have we come up with a forum on GN. WOW, can't wait.

So, here's the on-going problem. Son has now waited 10 weeks + for 'urgent' care. Staying with me for respite as he is not exercising self care (you get to use the jargon after a while). Of course, I am not a trained psychologist, but tried to support him to face and share what is stressing him at the moment yesterday as common sense tells me he needs to look at and break the cycle of what is stressing him and realise with support he can get through it. Tried to have a very sensitive and affirming talk. Tipped him into being very aggitated and in need of calming meds again. Took his 'last' diazepam last night and now waiting on call back from local emergency services to see him and prescribe more - just as a holding thing you understand.

He was at risk of harming himself yesterday, broke furniture and exposed nails and I was so worried he would put his wrists on them ... Managed to soothe him and get him to take meds ...and here we are ...

Each 'emergency', - A&E last week, out of hours support today, SHOULD bump him up the 'urgent list. Told today emergency referral takes about two weeks - we are halfway through waiting simply for an appointment to tweak meds and organise therapy ..then further waiting for therapy to start no doubt.

I am sharing this journey to highlight the poverty of care. Here is a wonderful young man, who 10 weeks ago was suffering significant job stress and whose manager was entirely unsympathetic .. who decided, rightly I feel on occupational health advice to give up the probationary job he had started as it was making him unwell and there was no alternative role he could do. He wasn't well, but he was managing, but recognised he needed some MH support. He has been seeking counselling support since then. WRONGLY referred fro CBT - he doesn't qualify because he has a personality disorder - why didn't dr know that?! So that meant a 5 week delay right off. Then Dr says, we don't have the money or resources to provide the 1:1 care you need -I will be referring you, but those people may not help you .. . at least a month's wait just to find out.

We are currently doing the NHS' job for them, providing daily care -unless he actually attempted suicide there would not be an offer of a bed ... and then it could be hundreds of miles away, (happened once before - we are in Kent and he was offered a bed in Yorkshire) but he needs family near ...

So, his health is deteriorating, difficulties compounded by the wait. He is further and further away from health and therefore longer needed for recovery. He qualifies for ESA, but not housing benefit as he lives with girlfriend - but she is a student! Unlikely he will be well enough to work for a couple of months at the very least ... and we are bracing ourselves financially for having to bail him out with his half of rent in about 2 months time - but I am not in work at the moment.

So much of all of his deteriorating health situation could have been avoidable if medical notes were shared efficiently and if there was more money for frontline services.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel this is just one 'hidden' story of so very many. And before you say 'here are online counselling contacts ... his personality disorder means he finds it very stressful to use the phone even when he is well. Howevee, A&E are using Samaritans as a stop gap holding service as 'normal procedure' now. They said someone would contact him this week - no-one has. AND they are not medical health experts and he would get a different volunteer each time - he cannot cope with having to go through his story each time he asks for help. So not any real use. Sigh...

If GNHQ decides against, I really will wonder whose side they're on....

Come on, GN, let's get things started.

Good. I hope they decide to do it.

Update: GNHQ say they recognise there are a lot of mental health needs and will discuss providing a new forum at their next meeting.

My niece suffers dreadfully but soldiers on with 3 children. She wasn't diagnosed until after the birth of her 3rd child. My sister and her husband are brilliant and we all try to help but feel inadequate at times. Just want to support her and her husband and family. More Resources are desperately needed I agree.

Yes Blinko, that was in my mind too, I will email GN in case they haven't been ear / eye-wigging .

I think a GN forum for MH support and advice would be a start. as well as offering immediate access to others in similar straits, I hope in time it might gather support and momentum to enable lobbying Parliament on behalf of those affected. Great idea!