Flu to hospital

Baggs that doesn’t surprise me, about resistance from doctors. I knew several pharmacists who don’t have the vaccine too.

Look I’m just trying to put the other point of view Jess and if that sounded like I was trying to pick a fight then that was not my intention.

However if I sounded like a pompous prat then I’ll apologise because I can see I’m not going to make any impression on your firmly held beliefs.

If one's risk is very low then cutting it in half isn't worth bothering about imo. If one works with high risk people it's probably worth having a flu jab to help cut their risk.

Something I read today though was claiming that only about half of health workers have had this winter's jab and "unions are likely to be wary of compulsory vaccinations, although health chiefs are expecting more resistance from doctors than from nurses".

Is 200 really a big enough sample to show anything?

No idea why you are picking a fight OldMeg unless we perhaps crossed swords in another life. I'm just worried about the number of people who are getting flu - and worried about catching it myself!
New Scientist front page story this week predicts the worst flu epidemic in living memory! (but we won't know until it's over of course)
The point about the NHS spending all that money is not in the least blown out of the water by one year's data . The policy is based on carefully and scientifically analysed data over many years. The NHS spends the money because the evidence is clear that in a typical year the flu vaccine reduces the statistical incidence of hospital admittance amongst those vulnerable groups and reduces the incidence of death from flu-related illness. This is in part the reason why since the Swine Flu epidemic we've had a lot of really good low-flu-death years. Last year was the exception - the vaccine was less effective in elderly and death rates were significantly greater. But of course scientists never take a sample of one when doing this kind of analysis. And I'm sure you appreciate that while the flu jab may not prevent an individual from getting flu or some kind or a flu-like illness, if you look at 100 people who have the flu jab they will have less flu cases than 100 who did not have the flu jab.
Latest data - see link - indicates that about half the confirmed (ie by lab tests in hospitals) flu cases were strains that are covered in this year's jab. Which seems to indicate that on average, a flu jab will cut your risk by a half.
www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-news/gp-consultation-rates-for-flu-like-symptoms-rise-further-as-aussie-flu-hits/20035924.article

There could be some misunderstanding about the compulsory vaccination programme and school attendance in Australia; however, their vaccination programme does include those that are not included here such as Hep B, Pneumococcal conjugate (13vPCV) and Rotavirus, plus other vaccinations such as Hep A for at risk groups. The varicella vaccination (chickenpox) is included in with the MMR, therefore MMRV.

As some parents are reluctant for their children to receive so many vaccinations from birth onwards I think there is some controversy about whether or not a pre-school or school can insist on a full vaccination history before enrolment.

The 'chickenpox vaccine' is available in other countries too including the UK but is not routinely given here.

Early days yet Jalima but it does appear that children who have the chicken pox vaccine have less chance of developing shingles in later life, I’ve heard.

Thanks, OldMeg.

Didn't know there was a chickenpox one, Jalima. Is it only in Australia?
I am assuming it doesn't morph, like the flu virus, so it's okay for international travel.

Apologies then DJ I made an assumption that you knew this.

Anyway the point I wanted to make has got somewhat lost in all this jolly cut and thrust of debate.

It is this. There needs to be more research into why the flu vaccine is typically less effective against influenza A(H3N2) viruses? Yes, there are several theories, some centred on the methodology used to produce the vaccine (egg based rather than cell based).

The holy grail of viral research of course, is to find a flu vaccine that will respond to all strains of flu. It’s not wishful thinking and there have been advances made quite recently after studies into the Swine Flu epidemic.

I’m sure we can agree on that.

I think that people who do not have children or grandchildren up to Y4 may not be aware that they are offered the flu vaccine.

Interestingly, Australian children also receive a vaccination against chickenpox and children are not allowed to start school without completing the full vaccination programme.
Presumably this would prevent anyone getting shingles in later life.

Sorry, but you said everybody knows that the adult one was not live; now you are saying you assume that most people are aware that the nasal one for children is live.
Well, no, actually, I didn't know that about the children's one. I don't suppose I'm the only one who didn't, either.

I have no grandchildren in the appropriate age group, so why should I remember it, or even notice it?

Who is doing the haranguing now?

DJ I said that the flu virus in the form we are being offered it - that was stated in my post quite deliberately. I do wish you had taken that on board. We are not children. I assume that most people are aware that the children’s nasal vaccine is live. FHS there’s been enough publicity about this.

Jess I’m not the touchy one. I can tell you are a strong advocate of all vaccinations and I am well aware of all the very basic facts you put forward. Indeed I’d be surprised if anyone is unaware of them. You have a mission to spread the word but you put your case rather dogmatically. As one who has rather more than a ‘background in biological sciences’ I’m very aware of the viruses, you list which can of course be found on the web by anyone, So don’t try to blind me wth a bit of science. Of course there are new strains emerging all the time. Again everyone knows this.

The mark of a true scientist to to present the facts without bias.

People can and will make up their own minds.

Your point about the NHS not spending millions on a pointless exercise is blown out of the water by the report from last season and your own admission.

I’m not saying people should not get the vaccine. In fact I clearly stated that I’d had it myself. But it’s not helpful to harangue people who’ve chosen not to have the vaccine for whatever reason.

I'm just recovering from what I suspect is Aussie flu. This area is apparently a hotbed for it.

I haven't had the flu vacc (not old enough) but is it worthwhile getting it done asap? Or am I shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, given that it takes a couple of weeks to get immunity from the jag?

It has been said by NHS Choices that anyone who hasn't had a flu vaccination should go and have one now. It's not too late, they said.
I like the lifejacket analogy, Jess.
In this weather you probably wouldn't survive.

Why so touchy Meg - someone on thread was implying that it was now too late to have a jab - I was pointing out there is no reason to think that this is true. (Boots still booking online for instance). So just clarifying that.
My background is in biological sciences - will that do?
I do get just a tiny bit irritated with people who come up with long lists of reasons not to have flu jabs. (Just like I get irritated with people who dont have their kids vaccinated against measles)
Would the NHS spend millions on vaccinating us if it was a pointless exercise?
Last year there was a less than usually useful cocktail of strains in the vaccine and death rates in the UK rose sharply after years of low levels of flu.
Just because the jab is not 100% protective is not a sensible reason to refuse it. It's like saying as you jump off the sinking ship "A life jacket might not save my life - so I won't bother wearing one"
I remember when my son was having a stem cell transplant - there was a period in which his immune system was virtually non existent due to the amount of chemo. He was quite worried about the outbreak of "swine flu" at the time.
By having a jab we reduce our chances of getting ill AND our chances of spreading it round to people like that who are in vulnerable health.
The Aussie flu virus a B/Brisbane/60/2008-like (B/Victoria lineage) is in this year's vaccine. As I posted above there is another new strain emerging and the jab will not protect against this. But looks like we could be in for a 2 virus epidemic.
In about 12 months time there will be a review of what happened this winter but until then nobody knows how it will pan out.
Hospital admissions that are flu-related are rising sharply right now.

Yes, I think the nasal flu vaccine is live but very weak and should not cause flu symptoms. Youngest DGC has had it but not the older ones.
The flu vaccine for adults is not live.

Old Meg - ANY flu vaccine, ANY year, is going to be composed (if that's the right word) of LAST YEAR's flu strain, & thus is highly unlikely to protect you from this year's!

You said everyone knows that the flu virus is not live.
Someone earlier on the thread said that the nasal vaccine given to children is live.

Are both those statements true?

Just asking if you realised where Jess was coming from.

I have just now after reading your post DJ and I don’t see anything in it about being medically qualified.

What am I missing? Unless you are referring to self publishing .

OldMeg, have you read JessM's Gransnet profile?

That was rather a bossy post Jess? (not sure if that’s your username as it’s on a previous page). It sounded like you were ordering people to get the jab.

I think what some people are saying is that it’s not that effective in over 65s (certainly last years wasn’t at all) even though we were being told differently at the time.

It is not at all certain that this years combination of strains is effective against the Australian type virus, firstly because it might easily have mutated already and secondly because we are constantly being misinformed about the effectiveness of this nebulous virus.

I have had the flu vaccine, but I’m under no illusions that this will offer me more than, perhaps 50% protection and possibly less. The danger is that some people might not take other precautions to protect themselves from infection if they, mistakingly believe they are well protected.

Everyone knows that the flu vaccine is not a live virus in the form we are being offered it, and therefore it does not give you flu. But there is too much anecdotal evidence that some people do have some kind of adverse reaction for it to be summarily dismissed as you did. There exists the possibility that every vaccine carries a risk of side effects and I’m sure if you cared to research this you would find it to be true.

Thanks for the best wishes