How should medical staff react to this:

Leongrove, when you are admitted, in a desperate state, needing emergency treatment, if that patient says no black staff....they usually will still be told, these are the staff we have available. If they still refuse then they can be asked to sign a waiver stating they won’t accept treatment from (whoever they don’t like). The hospital is then covered if they die. Same with some very sick patients who refuse further treatment or Jehova’s witnesses who have, like everyone else, the right to refuse blood products, and with that, the right to die. Racism is illegal....that means...always illegal...no get out of jail card for hard line sick racists. As far as racial predjuce being used as a cover for poor skills, I think you will find, we have homegrown incompetents of all colours, religions with all sexual orientations. Personally, as a white, British nurse, I truly have to bite my tongue to treat such people myself.

Call as I pointed out its lawful under the Equalities Act to request treatment on the grounds of sex. For example I could ring my surgery and say I wanted a female GP because of the problem I had - the surgery would not regard this as unlawful discrimination. However, if I rang up and said I wanted a white doctor, tbat is a quite different matter. Grand was muddling up two different issues and she also threw in the issue of competence to further muddy the water. BTW if my surgery didn’t have a female GP available quickly I would have to either wait or see a male. I do not have an absolute right to see a female

As long as they spoke good clear English it wouldn’t bother me. But I have a friend who’s husband had no idea what the registrar was saying as his English was so poor after an emergency operation that she had to go in and have it explained to her by a white nurse. So for me the language needs to be as good as the skills.

Perhaps a cross over to another thread I recently posted.

What about organ donation? Should we let patients choose the colour, religion or ethnicity of donor?

Emerald it’s not even about where they were trained is it? At my GP practice and local hospitals we have many doctors of colour born, brought up and educated and trained here. Some even went to public school and have very upper class English accents. ?. One poster tried to muddy the water on this thread by bringing in the issue of competence when the thread is about refusing treatment on grounds of colour.

Solange...I think it depends on how serious the person’s illness is, is it a life threatening one etc? Yes, they will be spoken to about their unreasonable requests/prejudices but in the end, the NHS will not let somebody die.
Fortunately these cases are rare.

I think I may understand where you are coming from now, Grandmablue
Are you saying that this old, unmarried lady was refusing to be treated by a white carer?
Or was it because he was male, which would be understandable in the circumstances.

Would she refuse to be treated by a white female carer though?

Cana your explain why a skin colour can make any difference would they only be treated by a surgeon with green eyes or red hair what the xxxx
What if a doctor refused to take someone on as a patient because they wore glasses it’s a bizarre as that
The person should have be given the one consultant and turned away as rejecting care if they still refused that doctor
Hideous bloody people

Both posts Solange You are right - people are mixing up the right to treatment with the right to treatment by a person of a colour of their choosing. We all have the right to refuse treatment obviously but what happens after that will be context dependent.

I think a patient should be told to go private if they want to refuse the doctor offered who is a competent surgeon,Consultant,practicioner.
Some of the best doctors we have are from overseas. My GP and his late partner came from Sri Lanka and have looked after my family for over 30 years. Thanks to his prompt referral when I had lymphoma it was diagnosed and treated quite quickly and succesfully. My haematoligist was from Ireland and of Italian descent. The doctor and nurse who carried out most of my treatment were both from Africa. Sometimes that nurse had to run the chemotherapy treatment room (of six patients) single handedly when her two nurse colleagues were off sick, in meetings and training. Whilst also being expected by the doctor to find him results/paperwork. Couldn't have had better treatment.
Many of the Consultants at our local hospitals have come here from overseas and we are grateful and glad to have them. Our NHS is understaffed and struggling to attract staff. We should look after them and treat them with respect. They are managing in difficult circumstances.

Unbelievable, such hate in the world...

Very well expressed Solange . That consultant sounded great - all should do that and if it’s the consultant who is at the receiving end, then a very senior manager should come and tell the patient the position.

If people are so vile as to refuse to be treated by a person of colour, maybe they should be told by NHS staff that they have the option to opt for private medical facilities where they can choose their own surgeons. The eye-watering price of treatment might change their attitude pretty damn quick!

Grandma blue why do you think that bigots, racists, fascist have a right to choose who treats them? Is a Tory right to ask for only Tory voting staff? Brexit voters allowed to refuse a European medic? Absolute piffle and that would be a Haters charter. If you work in the NHS then you are aware, they are drowning not waving, barely still providing an acceptable standard. If racists want to choose who treats them....then pay privately for that right or choose to do without.

Lemon grove, the point is, the racist is offered treatment, that is what the NHS offers. It doesn’t offer choice of staff. If a racist says no black, Muslim, catholic, Gay staff....then they are choosing to refuse treatment. I worked in the NHS for donkeys years. Many occasions when a nurse or medic went to provide treatment and the patient refused on the basis of colour, race or sexual orientation. Invariably the consultant would come out and give the bottom line....you have a choice of this doctor/nurse or you can choose to leave. The NHS has fulfilled its contract.

If you're in London, around March, my family's theatre company, Pipeline Theatre, will be running an award-winning play at The Pleasance theatre called: "DRIP, DRIP, DRIP", based on racism in the NHS. Go on to their site for the actual dates. It is VERY good. Also, if you can prove you work in the NHS, you'll get cut-price tickets.

Well said Pamela j1. Perfect answer,

Totally agree SueDonim.
My DH & I have our life due to doctors, consultants and care staff of all colours and creeds. My point is racism is not a one way road. It is frequently used as a defence for poor stands and incompetence...hence everyone should have a choice.

suziewoozie

The story on which this thread is based has nothing to do with incompetence and everything to do with racism that some NHS staff face.

My dd is a trainee medic. Any patient can refuse treatment from any health care practitioner. They do not need to give a reason. Where it crosses the line is when a patient then goes on to justify their refusal on grounds which are discriminatory, as in the OP. Of course, no HCP would want to treat a patient against their will, because there's been a breakdown of trust, so they will try to find an alternative, which is a heck of a lot more than a racist deserves.

Quite frankly, if I need medical attention, I don't give a flying fig who treats me as long as they do their job!

It isn't just about medical staff, surgeons, etc.

I have many friends who came to this country to do nursing and some of the things they have told me are absolutely shocking. Some have been sworn at and even assaulted.

Is it illegal to say you will only accept treatment from a white surgeon? I'm not sure. I think the people who behave like this are really very unpleasant, but they still need to be treated. Given that there are usually many non-white doctors in the NHS, these prejudiced people will presumably have to wait their turn like everybody else but the wait may be longer because the pool of surgeons available to them will be so much smaller.

No I didn’t Grand. Your example is quite quite different - that poor woman had rights under the Equality Act to same sex care - there is no right to same colour care.

Suzie said the thread was based on racism, I said read the book ‘whistle in the wind’. NHS staff (all people) are susceptible to racism whatever colour they are, it’s irrelevant. My opinion is that everyone should have a choice as to who they have to operate/care for them. And I stated that suzie has that choice, as do we all.
Recently there was a case of a lovely, very elderly spinster lady who had been subjected to FGM. The only available carer was a white young male. She made the choice not to allow him near her.

Grandmablue
What does that mean? They're words strung together grammatically but they don't make sense.

?????????