Gransnet forums

Health

How should medical staff react to this:

(134 Posts)
jura2 Fri 01-Nov-19 12:48:07

www.itv.com/news/2019-10-31/can-i-have-a-white-doctor-for-the-operation-racist-abuse-against-nhs-staff-almost-triples-itv-news-finds/

Have you read 'small, great, things' by Jody Picoult?

Callistemon Fri 01-Nov-19 18:34:43

Refusing to treat people because they are ignorant bigots would be going down a slippery slope towards discriminating against patients on other grounds too.

This is something that needs to be firmly dealt with by the Trust managers who have the backing of UK law.

Unfortunately, this is probably the tip of the iceberg and many cases probably go unreported.

jura2 Fri 01-Nov-19 18:29:37

Ignorant racists have a choice- be treated, or not.

lemongrove Fri 01-Nov-19 18:27:47

Yes suzie having read the link it seems that everyday casual racism is very common within the NHS.Sad, isn’t it?

lemongrove Fri 01-Nov-19 18:26:16

Matt Hancock talks sense when he says that trusts should manage cases on an individual basis.You can’t let people become very ill or die, even if they are ignorant racists.

suziewoozie Fri 01-Nov-19 18:23:18

Actually lemon it will all depend on the hospital and the surgical speciality. But I agree I think refusing surgery is rare but everyday racism towards NHS staff in general is probably more common.

lemongrove Fri 01-Nov-19 18:21:23

Yes, it’s racism of course, and who knows how the NHS actually does deal with a rare case like this?

lemongrove Fri 01-Nov-19 18:19:15

suziewoozie....since most surgeons here are white, it wouldn’t be difficult to arrange I would have thought, and less
Expensive than taking anything to the courts!
How the NHS does actually manage things of this kind, I have no idea.Fortunately these kind of people must be few.

jura2 Fri 01-Nov-19 18:19:08

lemon, totally disagree. How would you feel if a patient said s/he does not want to be operated by a Jewish surgeon. Or a gay one. Or a Muslim one.

Racism is illegal in the UK.

Callistemon Fri 01-Nov-19 18:18:02

… I don't want a female surgeon, etc etc

oh dear, I'm afraid the waiting list will now be 5+ years

suziewoozie Fri 01-Nov-19 18:13:29

The concept of duty of care also involves the concept of reasonableness - it could easily be argued in court that a request for a white doctor was unreasonable and in fact against the law. The Trust I’m sure would have a strong defence in that a qualified doctor was available and so no treatment was refused and so the duty of care was not breached. Imagine how this could develop- I want the most senior consultant, I want one trained at Kings, I want the best looking one .....

suziewoozie Fri 01-Nov-19 17:24:02

lemon I think rather than calling it reassigning, the patient should be told s/he’ll be given another date and can the ring in beforehand to check the colour of the surgeon but with no guarantees of course. Then it’s up to the theatre manager to organise the list to make sure s/he’s put on a non white surgeons list, again and again and again

Yehbutnobut Fri 01-Nov-19 16:22:52

Appalling indeed. Every single comment or request like this needs documenting and reporting.

Oopsminty Fri 01-Nov-19 16:21:41

I've read that book, jura.

Excellent and chilling.

This behaviour beggars belief, it really does.

Callistemon Fri 01-Nov-19 16:18:35

Yes, I saw this last night on the news.

We do have notices in the local hospital saying that abuse towards staff will not be tolerated and action will be taken but does action, in fact, happen?

I have never witnessed any myself or heard anyone making racist remarks but I am sure it does happen - I wonder if this happens more in A&E when would-be patients are drunk?

lemongrove Fri 01-Nov-19 15:57:10

Because Jura2 the patient doesn’t choose not to be treated, he chooses not to have an op performed by a non white surgeon.The NHS still have a duty of care towards him regarding his op/procedure but are at liberty to send him home until they can re-assign it.That’s my view anyway, on how things probably work.

dogsmother Fri 01-Nov-19 15:47:46

Perfect a Pamela.

jura2 Fri 01-Nov-19 15:46:57

why can't they say that? If a patient chooses not to be treated? Their choice. Their responsibility.

Fennel Fri 01-Nov-19 15:44:48

Difficult to believe shock.
I had an operation in June, the surgeon was an Indian man. He had pushed me up his waiting list because my symptoms were getting worse.
What would we do without them?
Many of the nurses in the postop ward were black as well.

lemongrove Fri 01-Nov-19 15:39:36

Fortunately, there can’t be many who have taken that attitude as to who their surgeon is, or where he comes from, most are just glad to be seen.

lemongrove Fri 01-Nov-19 15:37:42

It’s a difficult one though in fairness to Matt Hancock, as everyone has to be treated, and if a person objects to having (say) a black surgeon so much and the hospital say ‘go home then’.....that patient is not being treated and may become very ill or may die. Now, you or I may say ‘too bad’ but the government cannot say that, and really neither can the NHS.

PamelaJ1 Fri 01-Nov-19 15:26:50

Appalling news, how can there be so many racist, bigoted and uneducated people about?
I’m not sure how how they should be treated( or not) but I know I would be tempted to be extremely nice kind and polite.
Tell them so take a seat and as soon as a white person becomes free they will be attended to.
After about 5 hours be very sorry but all the white doctors have finished their shift could you come back tomorrow?
After a few days they may get the message!

agnurse Fri 01-Nov-19 15:00:50

In Canada, abuse of staff is absolutely not allowed and there are policies stating it will not be tolerated.

I say "policies stating" because, as this article pointed out, I'm sure that there are cases where abuse happens but it isn't reported.

I do agree that the answer should be, "I'm your health care worker today. That's who is available. If you don't want me to look after you, I will record it as you refused care." The reality is that there simply may not be someone else available, and they aren't about to call someone in on their day off just because the patient isn't happy with their carer.

grumppa Fri 01-Nov-19 14:49:45

Our local trust could not function with only white staff, and in fairness I have never witnessed racism by patients. However, if a patient is well enough to refuse treatment by a non-white member of staff on those grounds alone, surely the hospital can regard it as an offer of treatment declined, and record him/her as self-discharging.

jura2 Fri 01-Nov-19 14:26:09

Lucky ''What was so distressing was that the surgeon on the video did not feel he could rely on back up from the management''

in fact the Head of the Trust said he would send the patient home and refuse to treat them. Matt Hancock refused to back him up and said the NHS has to treat everyone, irrespective. IMHO- he should be made to apologise because being treated.

suziewoozie Fri 01-Nov-19 14:23:57

Sadly Old not everyone shares your views