Our 'Wonderful' NHS

I’ve had an operation recently with both pre and post op appointments needed. Each time I’ve had a text a few days before to remind me and each time the text says how much money it costs the NHS if I don’t turn up. In the case of the operation the amount was over £2000. Maybe we all need to be reminded about the cost of missing appointments however well or badly we think the system is working.

OH MY GOODNESS. What arm chair experts we grannies are, we could run a complex system like the NHS, no problem. First, may I agree with jaylucy, Caro57 and t
Nonnie, you really do have an unpleasant bee in your bonnet. There are many reasons for the failures you mention. The IT hacking because of no security updates weren't as a result of not caring, but a mixture of the NHS not having the £ to pay for the updates, and not having up to date equipment as well as no time to spend sorting the mess out. And as for the snarky comment about Bank Holidays, in my area appointments are offered on Bank Holidays and on Sundays. And the snarkier comment about admin staff not improving things because they don't want to do themselves out of a job, that is so low I can't even comment.
Gaunt47 - good admin is the backbone to any service or trade, and it has been cut to the bone, admin is the first thing to go if there are cuts to be made. Gangy5, you could not be more wrong, the last thing the NHS needs is another re-organisation. If you watched the series "Geoffrey Robinson reforms the NHS" a few years ago, he started by thinking a bit of reform needed and ended by discovering that the biggest problem were caused by endless changes and reforms, by the "internal market" and by compulsory competitive tendering, all of which stalled improvements by taking time and energy and caused duplications.
Rosina, how do you know no-one is "interested"? When some cuts were biting, a department I knew outsourced all their reports and mail to South Africa. Massive saving, colossal mistake clinically, eventually brought back in-house.
Our local referral system has outsourced the initial collating and processing of referrals to a private organisation which pays staff minimum wage on zero hours contracts. Hmmm.
Please do not think "private" is more efficient - Spire Healthcare do all their letters from Bristol, with predictable errors and lack of up-to-date information for far flung patients. And Mcrc don't let us start on the US system, yes, I have lived there, a friend was bankrupted by his wife's cancer, my daughter was in a car accident and it took a year to sort the admin to pay the $3,000 for the ambulance trip for 1/2 mile to A&E for her non life threatening injuries. And American folk I correspond with on a health forum for a chronic illness tell me the most horrific stories of no treatment at all because their insurance runs out or they have none.
Yes, I did work in the NHS as a clinician, and yes, I have made liberal use of it as a granny, some good admin, some bad.
Bottom line? Ask the police, ask the courts, as the schools - good admin is not a luxury second thought - it is essential and I hope to goodness more £ goes to it. Rant over.

Husband was due an appointment but hadn't received any notice. On contacting hospital told one would be sent out. Week later received a text at 9.28 am with appointment for same day at 10.45 am. Fantastic apart from it taking two hours driving to get there four and a quarter hours public transport. Had to contact explaining distance a problem. New appt for following week. There doesn't seem to be anything joined up or is it admin staff just have no common sense these days.

4allweknow - maybe some other explanations??

the NHS is flooded with work. How do you all function when flooded?

Very like the education system! Constant admin. In nhs someone I know recently spent an entire afternoon on her day off “revalidating” her credentials .....it took so long as she found the language (jargon?)used unclear !

I have been waiting since March for an appointment with a neurologist as I have a paralysis of the eye,part of my face and larynx not working right. I have so many appointments that get cancelled, one day I received the new appointment plus the cancellation in one post, meant to be end of December now, my GP did say if I went private it be quick but can’t do that.
Also waiting to see a rheumatologist and to have an echo on my heart,haven’t heard from either of them. Be easier if I just moved in the hospital I think lol
In the week also had a letter from the diabetic clinic saying that I hadn’t attended my appointment, I hadn’t even been given an appointment.

My mum had a long and extensive relationship with the NHS involving a lot of different hospitals and departments.Most of the time things were fine and she was always well cared for, but occasionally things did go wrong. I did find that if I complained afterwards and explained what had happened giving details and suggestions for improvements my complaint was very well received. In fact some of the things we suggested were implemented. For example she needed a blood test about every 3 months, when this first started we had to sit in a hospital clinic and wait sometimes for long periods. We asked if a nurse could make a home visit and this was set up. It was easier and more convenient for everyone. I think people in the NHS are prepared to change if they know what is happening.

Marjgran ???

Very well said Marjgran ??

My grandson was referred because of an issue with a bony lump in his jaw. His dentist said it wasn't an impacted tooth so needed the referral. First letter came with an appointment, then second letter saying appointment cancelled and rebooked at another hospital. Then two letters, from two different hospitals, with two different appointments. Hot on the heels of these letters came another one saying appointment was cancelled as consultant had left the hospital. Totally confused my daughter took GS to the remaining appointment and he was referred for an xray then to book a new appointment with them. Daughter did this and - surprise - two letters arrived for different hospitals at different times! I took GS to the first one expecting to find out the results of the xray - nope - it turned out to be a routine dental checkup that had been booked for him by the consultant at the first appointment. He finally got to see the right consultant a month later after daughter rang them. Excuse was that the consultant had, indeed, left but their system did not let them move his diary so it had automatically sent out cancellations letters for all appointments he had still booked for patients.

These appointment problems are annoying, but the NHS as a whole is wonderful. It is a huge organisation, and treats millions every day, so sometimes things may not go to plan- appointments are cancelled, letters go astray, duplicates are arranged etc. But in the grand scheme of things the NHS does a wonderful job. To put it in perspective, I have had two bouquets delivered to the wrong addresses, and a present for my one year old granddaughter was delivered on the specified day, but to me, not the delivery address. And these from firms with a much smaller client base. As another poster has said, admin staff are overworked, underpaid and under appreciated. We need to remember this.

I think the NHS do a wonderful job. The admin has always been managed fantastically despite the fact certain parts are being sold off to Virgin Healthcare (which disgusts me and why I will be voting the way I am voting!!).
It IS to do with money though, as the majority of staff are underfunded, over-worked, and deal with so much more than many seem to realise.
My daughter has been a Nurse for 39 years, and my son in law a Paramedic for 46 years, and they have nothing but good things to say about the staff at our local hospital and GP practise.
Believe me, saying our NHS needs money is no Knee Jerk reaction, I think thats a truly daft and unbelievable thing to suggest.... its a desperate need that everyone who actively uses our NHS would know about. And if you don't believe what you see/hear, then ask the next time you're there.

The nursing staff are great but the clerical side seem unable to 'join up the dots'.
I needed a scan, the equipment was booked, the personnel was there but they forgot to tell ME.
Then for a biopsy the specialist asked for a particular type which he liked to do last as it took longer. It was on the paperwork but went unnoticed so after arriving at the appointed time he asked if I would mind going for a coffee and return in an hour. Thankfully we weren't in a hurry and he came to get us.
All this because of inattention to detail which lets them down.

It's easy to criticise the NHS and we all have stories to tell, and there's always room for improvement, but it's important to know that as a share of GDP we pay less than many other developed countries.

It is also a fact that the UK has fewer doctors, nurses, hospital beds, and CT and MRI scanners than similar countries.

Of course they need more money, ask anyone working in the NHS currently.

At least the UK is committed to providing healthcare free at the point of use (at present) and we are protected from financial hardship when needing life saving and expensive treatment.

Then for a biopsy the specialist asked for a particular type which he liked to do last as it took longer. It was on the paperwork but went unnoticed so after arriving at the appointed time he asked if I would mind going for a coffee and return in an hour. Thankfully we weren't in a hurry and he came to get us.

Thats not a clerical error.

Ordering of lists is a clinical decision. You were missled if he blamed the booking staff: he should have checked his list for clinical reasons why the order should chsnge. You cant expect clerical staff to make that call!

Clerical staff fill the lists then clinical staff should check them for clinical issues with the order.

Nobody notices the great work work that admin do to enable clinical staff to do their job. As you dont see them you dont think about them unless theres a problem.

If a clinic runs smoothly people thsnk the nurses and doctors. Never the admin staff who got everyone to the right place at the right time. If it doesnt, admin get blamed!

Marjgran Sat 23-Nov-19 16:29:04 you disagree with me but is it necessary to be unpleasant? My observations are all based on fact and I have a right to my opinion without you being nasty.

It is a fact that the IT updates were provided but some failed to use them. It really is that simple.

Yes, we thought they were working on a BH when the first letter arrived but when the second came and referred to 'unforeseen circumstances' it is hardly credible that it was anything other than they hadn't realised. That is not 'sarky' it is a natural observation.

What 'reason' can you give for DH having to drive for 1 1/2 hours several times for pre-op tests because all the previous pre-op tests were out of date? How difficult would it have been for the letter provider to look at post codes and bring the local people in for the 0800 appointments? Why couldn't the blood test have been done the same day as the other tests or even near our home and emailed over. His consultant when he finally got the operation thought it was appalling, is he wrong too?

May I reiterate that I started this thread about the admin? I have not criticised the medical side. I have stated what I know, not any assumptions, simply facts.

It is a fact that the IT updates were provided but some failed to use them. It really is that simple.

Its really not that simple.

As posted above, when a "one stop" data system was installed to tie up primary and secondary care in my area, eliminating the need for outdated and less reliable and less secure fax/letter/email/phone between different service providers.....

Lots of people OPTED OUT because of myths about NHS selling your data on social media!

So when service providers fail to use the new system it is because it only works as a one-stop-shop if it used by everyone. And it is not. As there was a rush of opting out after a totally inaccurate article in our local rag which just lifted and reprinted myths from social media.

Just finished reading 'This is going to hurt' by Adam Kay- about the real like of a Junior doctor- heart breaking and yet hilariously funny. It should be compulsory reading for anyone who has been a patient at any time- so all of us.

And his story is about a Junior Doctor fairly recently- working only 70+ hours a week, unlike Juniors in the 70s- where 140 hours a week was NORMAL ... The vast majority of people cannot even possibly begin to realise what this means- in life and death situations, day in, day out.

In the meantime, the Consultants mostly look after the private patients, and leave the Juniors to it.

Yes jura2 I saw Adam Kay speaking about his experience when he was doing a book tour.

Unfortunately he isn't alone and I know ex colleagues who have left the NHS early because of burn out, and over work.

It literally almost killed my OH, several times - but he stuck it out, because he was totally dedicated to the NHS and what it stood for.

jura2 not all consultants ^ mostly look after the private patients, and leave the Juniors to it.^
I have met many who work very hard and care for their patients very well. They also supervise and oversee the work of their juniors besides ensuring that a whole team of people work together to provide treatment and care. And some consultants actually have no private patients because they don't fit in their specialist area. There are few private patients in geriatric care, paediatrics or oncology

In the meantime, the Consultants mostly look after the private patients, and leave the Juniors to it.

Rubbish.

Consultants dont do the ward based work that juniors can do. That doesnt mean they arent working. They are doing the emergeny work and clinic work and operating etc that juniors can't do.