NHS or Private.

Just a reminder that the waiting lists for going private are now much longer, as so many who had their NHS ops cancelled are going down that path.

BUT ALSO near us the private hospitals are working flat out in partnership with out local Hospital Trust treating NHS patients who need urgent care eg cancer patients,

We are lucky in this country to have the NHS, the ability to have medical help and support open and accessible to all at any time is widely considered to be one of Britain’s all-time greatest achievements. But lately the worry over its longevity has been heightened by reports of over-worked, poorly paid doctors and nurses and under staffed departments. The Covid19 pandemic has exacerbated the problem. And most recently in the news, it's estimated that taxes would need to increase to an additional £2000 per household for 15 years, that's £40 a week, to try and bring it back from the brink. So should VAT be added to private health care?

Due to a waiting time of over two years and thepain and discomfort I was in my mother in law paid privately for my hysterectomy. Saw the same consultant as I would have using nhs. Being a socialist I told him going private was against my principles - he laughed but agreed. He said he would definitely have “lost” his wife if she had gone to a private hospital when she was ill without doubt nhs emergency facilities and expertise saved her.

I have always been against going private but over the years have changed my mind after having to go private twice for MRI scans. The first was one my knee and this prompted the Dr to take action and I had my knee replaced quite quickly. The second time has been on my back to find out just what is causing my upper back pain. The Dr just kept giving me painkillers and they didn't always work. So I booked in for a private consultation and an MRI scan. The result was it was my lung that was causing the problem and once again the Dr has taken action and quite quickly I am now seeing someone on the NHS.

I had my hip done last October, I had pain in June, x ray July ,saw consultant August, was due to have the op Novembet, but got a cancellation for early October. I had it done at a stand alone unit which only does hips and knees. Incredibly well staffed, and only two people in each little ward. A friend had the same surgeon, but paid, you get more aftercare such as physio and hydrotherapy, but I was really happy with my experience. I'm lucky to live in apart of London with good GPs and hospitals.

In my area, prior to Covid, a private hospital was used for NHS hip and knee replacements, one of which I had three years ago. I had a private room and superlative care. It amused me that for the first meal after my op I could have chosen tempura prawns! Now, that hospital is being used for other NHS procedures and I shall probably have to wait a year, in pain, for my next hip replacement. If I had money in the bank I would definitely go privately.

I never have and never will have money for private and it would never enter my head to dream about it I have always had such good treatment in the NHS and I m not only proud of it (I know I worked for it) but think it’s still a national treasure

GagaJo

Like private education, if everyone was forced to use the NHS, the quality of service would drastically prove very quickly.

GagJo, if everyone was forced to use the NHS would that mean not being able to go abroad for privately paid surgery?

Did you know that if the private hospitals had charged VAT on the 2018/2019 year, £2billion would have been raised. Whether that would have been pumped into the NHS is open for discussion.

spangler
You ask: There are those who say that going private is tantamount to queue jumping, but the counter argument is that getting off the NHS waiting list shortens the queue.

My answer: The problem is that of those doctors undertaking private practice, the large majority also work in NHS consultant posts, doing their private work outside of and on top of their NHS commitments. A small proportion of doctors work in full-time private practice only.

So getting off the NHS list and going private will not shorten it. It will more than likely make the waiting time longer

Franbern that does not normally happen. Private patients are usually seen elsewhere and to my knowledge, never during an NHS clinic. That clinic was not well managed.

Very few consultants have full-time NHS posts, the vast majority work a % of the week for the NHS. A few work privately only.

I know of one consultant who operated one day on his private patients first and this was on the day he should be operating on his NHS patients only. This happened once, followed by his NHS patients and never again, he soon learned the error of his ways!

This same consultant had the cheek, again once only, to transfer his private patients who had major surgery to the NHS ward immediately post-op for a few days because he trusted the NHS sister to look after his patients.

Credit cards taken at reception on arrival. Alternatively, if patients have insurance they will have been given codes to give at reception.

Like private education, if everyone was forced to use the NHS, the quality of service would drastically prove very quickly.

I was sent for small surgical procedures to the local private hospital by the NHS. Both times, I was treated identically to all other patients - they only had small individual rooms.

This hospital has been increasingly used by the local NHS for all sorts of smallish day care surgical procedures. Obviously done well as they have been able to extend their premises considerably,

When I took a friend for post-op appointment, we all sat in a large waiting area. She was seen more than two hours after her appointment time. We saw several people coming in and reporting to reception, sitting down and going in to their Doctor within a few minutes. I checked each of these as they came out, and all then went to reception and used their credit cards to pay. So, private patients were treated very differently to those majority coming (and being paid for) by the NHS.

I feel very embarrassed if I am told to attend a private hospital or place for NHS treatment , and really prefer not to do so.

The nurses at the private hospital I was in said that overflow NHS patients were seen there too and were treated exactly the same as private patients. NHS clinics also held there at times to try to reduce the waiting lists. Seemed a good NHS /private use of facilities and staffing but doesn't mean NHS is 'for sale'.

Yes Trisher I agree, and most acknowledge that the policy of selling off local authority housing and not allowing the funds to be used to replace the housing stock has led to the housing problems we have today. I would hope that medical care would not get quite so bad as your last paragraph suggests, but fear that it may with the latest votes against protection of the NHS. Yes, we will be treated for a burst appendix or a heart attack, but all those other non essential procedures which make the difference between living and existing will disappear for those without the means to pay for them. And no, I am not happy about either the housing or the medical situation, but too many people keep voting for a government which is forcing us into this moral dilemma.

GillT57 I suppose though if we were to take that analogy to the furthest extent we could argue that increased numbers of people owning their own house has led to those at the bottom of the housing ladder being homeless, sofa surfing or living in B&B accommodation or even on the streets. For the NHS this would I suppose mean some would not receive treatment or be treated in inadequate premises with no access to expensive medical treatments or drugs, whilst others paid for their operations.

To all those 'principled' socialists who are against private hospitals, private schools etc. because it's not fair that others can't afford them .. I hope you don't live in your own privately owned house because that would be extremely ironic! I don't think anyone has said this QQ, most people seem 'resigned' to having to pay for procedures which they would have to wait a very long time for on the NHS. This is what we will end up with though, a health system whereby if you cannot pay for the 'non emergency' hip replacement you will be on a very long list, and many on here have reported that some procedures are simply no longer available on the NHS at all. The problem with health insurance is that the two most expensive stages of our lives are the very early weeks and the latter years and as many have testified, premiums can be exceedingly expensive. We have decided not to go down the BUPA route but to just self insure, and if we ever find ourselves needing a hip replacement or cataract removal, we will pay for it. I realise that not everyone can do this, but think it is better financially than paying high monthly premiums for something which may not be used.

Franbern

Surely it is the same surgeons who do both NHS and private operations. So, it is queue jumping, as the time taken for private patients is time taken away from NHS ops.

Franbern, this was my concern, but as others have said, the surgeons that do both private and NHS operations will have employment contracts that stipulate their working hours. The detriment to NHS patients, as I see it, is that the surgeons earn far more privately than they would working overtime for the NHS.

There is another factor in the equation, part of my contract deal at work included private health insurance, that, like my company car, was classed as unearned income and attracted income tax. It has been a regular source of additional income for the taxman.

When we leave the EU you can expect VAT to be slapped on the cost of private medical care. The only reason it isn't so at the moment is because it wouldn't be accepted by other EU member states, particularly those (like France) where healthcare is not centrally provided and payments by patients are much more important.

A few years ago I was told that I needed cataract operations on both eyes. I was fortunate enough to have the first one relatively quickly, but on my post operative check up I was told that it would be Eighteen months before I could have the second. Fortunately I have the type of health insurance whereby if you are unable to have an operation within a limited period you may have it done privately. It was done within a week in a private hospital by the same surgeon who had performed the first one. The policy is very reasonably priced and also gives me access to a doctor for advice. I do not feel that I queue jumped, but that I gave up my place in the queue to someone else.

I have 2 friends who both needed the same operation, they live in different health areas and whereas one was told she would have a short wait for an NHS operation the other was told years. Rather than wait she decided to pay. They had their operations within weeks of each other, Done by the same surgeon, in the same private clinic where he treats NHS and private patients. One was free, one cost several thousands.
I used to be really against private healthcare, but I am wavering. I do worry that the main patients in NHS hospitals will become the elderly, those with long term conditions, those whose money has run out and those who never had any, and that these people will receive a lower standard of health care.

After 30+ years working in NHS I had my knee replacements at a private hospital. The ops were carried out in the evening presumably as the surgeons and anaesthetists worked in NHS. I had been severely debilitated and the prospect of more years of crawling from seat to seat was horrifying. I had to use my NHS retirement lump sum to pay for these. The cost wasn't open ended. I was quoted a price covering absolutely everything so I knew in advance what it would be. It even included equipment I needed back home.
Suffice to say that I was so impressed that I've now signed up for private medical insurance. Interestingly my surgeon told me that he and all his colleagues have it too.

Don't let the NHS become a privatised system in disguise. Keep out shareholders!

During winter months when there are broken bones galore, it's not unusual in my area for patients to be operated in the NHS hospital then sent to the private hospital to recuperate as there's usually an overflow on the ortho ward. Patients have said it was like living in an hotel. They got better quicker !!

Surely it is the same surgeons who do both NHS and private operations. So, it is queue jumping, as the time taken for private patients is time taken away from NHS ops.

I wish we'd have remained in the EU. The USA wouldn't have had a smell in. This is the U-turn which Boris had pre-arranged with Trump during the Brexit vote after Boris's closet Remain stance became a thing of the past.

I wish I'd kept the cutting from a few years back when BJ, prior to running for PM was a Remainer. He knew he'd win the vote for PM by the Brexit voters which is why he did it.

Nothing like bluffing your way through is there ? David Cameron knew this as he wrote it in his book.