The Vaccine

trisher

It's a belief even with the science
It amuses me how many are slagging me off, I haven't decided if I will be vaccinated yet. It's my choice and your lecturing doesn't help

I’m addressing your ill informed comments about sample size nothing else as you appear to be using those to criticise the validity of the research

It's a belief even with the science
It amuses me how many are slagging me off, I haven't decided if I will be vaccinated yet. It's my choice and your lecturing doesn't help

Interesting thread, I most certainly will be having the vaccine. I have worked in medical laboratories and have a scientific degree. I feel very confident about the research that has been done. I cannot wait for my life to get back some to some sort of normality and to be able to travel to see my beloved Grandchildren as I have only managed to see them twice this year and will not be seeing them at Christmas. If I were able to I would be first in line.

trisher

Sorry suziewoozie all that makes me think of is the Mandy Rice Davies response "Well he would say that wouldn't he". (That's going to upset people, you're not supposed to joke about it are you?)

trisher When clinic trials are peer reviewed and subject to scrutiny, one of the basic issues is the actual trial design and whether it is sufficiently powered. It’s a fundamental issue that quite frankly if you don’t understand then you’ve can’t make a meaningful comment on the sample size. Your joke is both pathetic and inappropriate.

trisher

Nothing frightens me more than people who think they have a right to dictate to others what they should or shouldn't do with their own body. Advise by all means, present figures and evidence to support your beliefs but stop playing the holier-than-thou card. It's not only wrong it's counter productive because people think who the hell are you to tell me what to do.

Not beliefs, but Science. Facts. Reality.

Some people won't listen. I hope the ones who really want to understand have got something from this thread.

Sorry suziewoozie all that makes me think of is the Mandy Rice Davies response "Well he would say that wouldn't he". (That's going to upset people, you're not supposed to joke about it are you?)

trisher

^And Prof Andrew Pollard - director of the Oxford vaccine group - said it had been "a very exciting day" and paid tribute to the 20,000 volunteers in the trials around the world, including more than 10,000 in the UK.^

The issue is not the actual numbers but the numbers needed to ensure the trial is sufficiently powered so that any effects produced can be statistically significant and not just down to chance, Different trials need different numbers depending on what is being measured and how large or small the difference in effect that is being investigated. Oxford say that the results are statistically significant for both the two full doses and the one and a half doses arms of the trial

Nothing frightens me more than people who think they have a right to dictate to others what they should or shouldn't do with their own body. Advise by all means, present figures and evidence to support your beliefs but stop playing the holier-than-thou card. It's not only wrong it's counter productive because people think who the hell are you to tell me what to do.

www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2020-07-19-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-trials
This is from the trials data -24,000.

And some old folk criticise the young. Amongst the sensible, the wise, the careful grans, there are some very unwise, selfish, misinformed grans. I am always stunned. False facts are repeatedly rolled out. No, it they are not “live”, not “rushed”, not “compulsory”, and yes you can choose to not have it, because you are fearful, but if you spread conspiracies you are dangerous and it dismays me that you will be protected by the community spirited among us.

And Prof Andrew Pollard - director of the Oxford vaccine group - said it had been "a very exciting day" and paid tribute to the 20,000 volunteers in the trials around the world, including more than 10,000 in the UK.

I read 24,000 have had the Oxford vaccine in the trials so far, but the trials are ongoing worldwide. The adverse reactions to the majority of drugs in common use are higher than shown in the Oxford trials. This vaccine has already been tested on a lot more people than a lot of other drugs we are prescribed.

Simple equation for me, there’s much less chance of dying as a result of the vaccination than from the virus. The less older people who opt to have it, the more those people increase the chance of dying for themselves and other older people who haven’t been vaccinated.

I thought we were talking about accredited vaccines Lucretzia. Of course there are more people involved elsewhere, both Russia and China have vaccinated huge numbers before any safety procedures were introduced or proper trials run. Is that a model we need to follow?

Worldwide, trisher

Far more than 18 thousand

Well actually not all that many. 100.000 people volunteered but there are at least 3 vaccine trials, so perhaps a third involved with each trial. Of those- 33-35 thousand half will have to be given the placebo . So actually about 18 thousand trialing each vaccine. Not a huge number.
I do think those people berating anyone who thnks they may not have the vaccine are being unreasonable. Given the short research period, the small number of volunteers and the varying information being gathered about Covid I think freedom of choice is essential. No one knows if there will be huge side effects, no one knows how long the protection will last. If someone chooses not to have it and instead to continue to use distancing and other safety precautions that is entirely their right.

It’s not discrimination if ( for reasons other than medical) you choose not to have the vaccine and as a result, consequences flow from this decision such as it being able to fly Quantas ( or whatever) . It’s called accepting the consequences of a decision you make and not stamping your feet and saying it’s not fair .

* A couple of hundred volunteers is a very small number for a vaccine that is to be given to billions of people*

Where do you get the couple of hundred from?

Tens of thousands of people have received a vaccine

I expect you all have received the same letter from the NHS about having the flu vaccine. What has made me cross is the letter that accompanied it. I feel insulted about the content and phraseology. I would have liked to have made it a separate post, but do not know how to post in the AIBU?

The letter is from the Government Medical Director for Primary Care It began: 'I'd like to remind you to book an appointment with your GP practice or pharmacist to get the flue vaccine'. It goes on to give reasons for having the vaccine, availability etc. It says that even if you had the jab last year, you still need it as flu varies each year.

I have never had the flu jab as I explained before. Being housebound I do not mix with people much anyway.

I look upon the accompanying letter as an insult to my intelligence and dignity. It is headed: Help the NHS save money on letters like this(referring to the above flu reminder) and please bear in mind I did not need that letter and I do not suppose anyone did:

'Small things can make a huge difference to the NHS, especially when it comes to saving money.

You may not realise how much sending printed and posted letters to patients costs, but it runs easily into 100s of millions of pounds a year - and worse still the environment pays a very high price too.!

Simply switching to digital communications will help reduce this expense - so we all win.'
Then it goes on to talk about switching to digital.

I have been online since 2005, and you would think I had refused to go digital. I did not ask them to send a letter about the flu jab anyway, and this could easily have been incorporated in that letter.

GrannyRose15. I totally support your right to choose. I suspect that, for many, a not compulsory vaccine might be effectively compulsory if they wish to do things like travel or work in certain industries. Time will tell.

I myself am happy to let a lot of people have the vaccine before me. It gives a chance for any significant issues with it to emerge before I consider putting it in my own body.

cant wait

GrannyRose15

Alegrias2

Reading conspiracy theories on the internet does not constitute doing research.

Listening to people who know what they are talking about is a good idea though.

The problem is how do we know you know what you are talking about? There are lots of comments on this site that I wouldn't trust, on both sides of the argument. Mostly it's the ones that say "of course it is a personal choice but if you don't have it you are being selfish/foolish/ reckless. Delete where appropriate. It is my choice to have a vaccine or not because only I know my personal circumstances. How dare anyone try to make me feel guilty about my decision.

You've assumed, GrannyRose15, that I'm asking you to believe me. I don't expect you to believe me any more than I expect you to believe the people who start their posts with I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but.... or who tell us we need to do our research. What I would hope is that you would look at what people like Sarah Gilbert are saying about the vaccine work they are doing. Or look at the posts from FoghornLeghorn who will actually be involved in the vaccine rollout. Then you don't need to believe anything - you just need to look at the evidence and make an educated judgement.

I'm not trying to make you feel guilty about anything. People will be unable to take the vaccine because of medical circumstances. But anybody who is just not going to take it because they don't understand how important it is, or choose to believe misinformation, won't get any empathy from me.

Wow, thank you LauraNorder, that was really nice and much appreciated

You would have been quite right to blast me EV, I didn't pay enough attention. You've got to 'fess up when you get it wrong. That'll teach me to multitask

anewstart

Never in a million years.

Am totally anti vax and never had my children vaccinated, they're now healthy adults with their own children who also, have not been vaccinated.

I come from a 'medical' family.

Have you lived somewhere like Africa or India and seen the children and adults who are living every day with the results of infectious diseases like polio and measles? I have, and it’s not pretty.

Of course, you might say they’re the ‘lucky’ ones. Many others are in their graves at a young age due to these awful diseases. It’s such a privilege to be able to refuse vaccinations.

Hi GrannyRose15

It is my choice to have a vaccine or not because only I know my personal circumstances. How dare anyone try to make me feel guilty about my decision.

Not trying to make you feel guilty and if you are genuinely a person who can't have the vaccination then of course you on't have it

But making it personal choice is tricky.

What if we all make it our personal choice not to have the vaccine?

Where would that leave us?

GrannyRose15 Your medical advisors also know your personal circumstances, and they also know more than most people about the vaccines that are being developed, so I hope you will discuss it with them before making your decision.

The Oxford vaccine, for instance, was already in clinical trials before it was tweaked when the CoVid19 virus first appeared, so it has had longer in development that it first appears.