The Vaccine

Just had a quick e-Mail from daughter with a bit of news on the Oxford vaccine.

This is based on standard technology, so the side effects will be already known so should go through the safely checks quite quickly.

This will be the one most of us will get as it is in production and easier to store. So logistically it isn’t such a headache.

You know when you wonder what the point of life is and what you have contributed?

Well those scientists will never get that feeling will they?

Like some of you I’m holding a watching brief. There has been little public discussion with scientists who hold opposing views on the virus let alone a vaccine.

As I understand it this is the first vaccine that has been developed using the virus’ RNA and not the tried and tested methods used previously. It sounds like genetic engineering. Not that I’m against progress but it looks like a venture into the great unknown right now.

I will wait awhile and see what the results are before I go ahead. This partly originates from my distrust of this government and a lack of informed public debate.

If all seems to be going well, I will have the vaccine at a later date, especially as I would like to visit my daughter in NZ. My DH on the other hand will have it as soon as it is offered as he has a number of health conditions. Before anyone ‘shouts’ at me, I’m far more reclusive than he is and have a very small circle of social contacts.

Just now I don’t think a vaccination should be compulsory. It’s new technology and the effects on the general population can only be estimated.

Have my sleeve rolled up and my arm waiting for whichever vaccine is offered to me first). So excited that these are coming into being, can see light at end of the tunnel and later next year life returning to something approaching normal.

I am not 80 yrs old until next year, so am likely to be in third or fourth group. Do hope they include teacher and school staff amongst the top priorities.

Cannot understand any of us older people being worried about this vaccine. More likely to be concerned if I was many years younger, as (obviously) there has not been any time to find out long-term effects. But for me I would be there today if I could have any of these vaccines developed by these wonderful scientists.

I heard somewhere that Italy is prioritising its police and the military to have the vaccine. It did make me wonder whether they were going to be used in the manoeuvres or whether the Italian government anticipated some kind of unrest.

Im first in queue when i get my turn. Im 66 so will be in the next group. I dont mind which type i get i just want to protect my elderly mother and my family.
I'm finding so many people who are saying its a government plot to affect our brains and make us more obedient so they can take us over and control ourthoughts and freedoms.
At first I thought it was just a few idiots but my friend is a healthcare professional and her daughter is too and they both believe this. A relative of mine agrees. These people are not ignorant but well educated. I just can't believe this. Many posts on Facebook are along this vein. I wonder what world am I living in, surely we all want to protect ourselves and others.
I'm still determined to have a jab tho.

Thanks grow that’s communication

Alegrias2

It would appear that there's always going to be a "yes, but...." Which sounds a little bit like looking for excuses, I'm afraid. If it's not the timing, it's the side effects or the logistics. Which is why the government need to get the communication sorted about this rollout.

Have the vaccine, save lives, including your own. End of.

I’m not looking for excuses when I say there’s maybe issues around the 15 min wait. My fear is that they will over promise and that leads to mistrust. I agree that much depends on the communication strategy and frankly that’s been utter s**t from the getgo.

I'm in two minds about the vaccine. I think I'll wait for the reviews and then decide.

Thanks for that post growstuff I do think the idea that this vaccine wiill be the silver bullet is being wdely promoted just now. I think it would be much better if the situation was discussed more.

trisher

growstuff as I understand it in order for vaccines to work a certain percentage of the population needs to be done. With limited amounts of vaccine I can't see how that can happen. Of course it will protect those who are already exposed to the virus, but those sheltering may be lulled into a false sense of security because they have been vaccinated.

It depends on what you mean by "work".

My understanding is that the Pfizer vaccine stops about 90% of infected people from developing the severe symptoms, which kill people. It has not been established whether it stops anybody catching the virus nor whether infected people are infectious.

It's good news for the most vulnerable because they will hopefully not develop symptoms and fewer will die.

In time, it could mean that everybody gets infected but, if they're vaccinated, they won't develop symptoms. That's a different idea from so-called herd immunity.

If everybody were vaccinated and if immunity lasts for life, we could have a situation where humans live alongside the virus, which can't do much harm.

The catches are that not everybody will be vaccinated and we don't know how long immunity lasts or whether it will mutate. If we ignore all the safety precautions and life goes back to "normal", the virus will still be doing the rounds and some people will still be very vulnerable. It won't be like smallpox and totally eradicated. It will be many months or years before the effects of vaccine on a whole population can be evaluated with any accuracy, especially as the whole world (all 7.8 billion of us) will need to be vaccinated.

So, yes, the vaccine will hopefully "work" by protecting the most vulnerable individuals, but nobody knows whether it will "work" at eradicating (or severely reducing) transmission. I agree with you that some people might be lulled into a false sense of security.

Alegrias2

It would appear that there's always going to be a "yes, but...." Which sounds a little bit like looking for excuses, I'm afraid. If it's not the timing, it's the side effects or the logistics. Which is why the government need to get the communication sorted about this rollout.

Have the vaccine, save lives, including your own. End of.

Yep! Simples!

I'm not at all happy with vaccines being tested on animals, but as vaccination is so very important, I'll put aside my vegan objections and willingly have whatever one is offered.

www.veganfriendly.org.uk/health-fitness/vaccines/

It would appear that there's always going to be a "yes, but...." Which sounds a little bit like looking for excuses, I'm afraid. If it's not the timing, it's the side effects or the logistics. Which is why the government need to get the communication sorted about this rollout.

Have the vaccine, save lives, including your own. End of.

Alegrias2

I've always had to wait Suziewoozie. Last time I had a wee wander around the ground floor of Boots for 15 minutes. As for SD, that's going to be easier to manage in a sports hall than a doctor's surgery.

Well I’m just saying what my experiences were. I still think there’s a logistical issue around this that I’d like to hear more about. Not all venues will be sports halls

I've always had to wait Suziewoozie. Last time I had a wee wander around the ground floor of Boots for 15 minutes. As for SD, that's going to be easier to manage in a sports hall than a doctor's surgery.

Alegrias2 I think the general perception is that once you've had the vaccine you can mix as you like.
MayBee70 400 mill doses for Europe but the population is 448 mill- 48 mill not going to get it. That's almost 10%.

The first time I was asked to wait fir 5 mins was this year at Boots. Every other year at the GPS it was out as soon as you’d had it.Also there would have to be sd which adds to the logistical problems.

I am aware that I am starting to sound like the government's vaccine propaganda service, and I'm not, really

The virus is with us forever trisher. The purpose of the vaccine is to reduce the prevalence of the virus in the community, but no-one will ever be 100% protected, the same way we are not 100% protected from flu. Over time (weeks, months, I don't know) the level of the virus will reduce enough to make the risk low enough for all of us to start our lives again. We might need to get boosters periodically, like we do for flu. That's also why its important for people like AGAA4 that as many of us as possible take the vaccine, to reduce prevalence as much as possible.

Ellianne

That wasn't my impression Alegrias. I was very interested in the logistics and how every patient had to wait for 15 minutes at the surgery after the injection. If it is to be administered by volunteers in a sports hall or such like, who is going to monitor the patients and administer any treatment?

I’m another one who is interested in the logistics of the 15 minute wait. It will certainly impact the rate of throughput. I’m sure that every location when jabs are being given will have medical personnel in attendance not just for emergencies but just general oversight. I think it will all take longer than is being said and I wish they’d stop over promising.

Ellianne

That wasn't my impression Alegrias. I was very interested in the logistics and how every patient had to wait for 15 minutes at the surgery after the injection. If it is to be administered by volunteers in a sports hall or such like, who is going to monitor the patients and administer any treatment?

I don't really see why this is a problem Ellianne. My parents has their flu jabs in a sports hall this year. They had to wait 15 minutes afterwards, as I have always had to do. It didn't make any difference that they were in a sports hall, in fact it sounds like a great job for a sensible volunteer - keep an eye on people for 15 minutes and call a medical person if needed.

As for the mother of the GP - it was me who asked her about sources. She made a comment about side effects that was completely wrong and would have scared people. With so much misinformation about vaccines doing the rounds we all need to be responsible about what we say or write.

There is plenty of the Oxford vaccine and it is being produced in India where they are used to doing things on a vast scale. It just needs to get past the safety checks, having been held up temporarily a couple of times.

growstuff as I understand it in order for vaccines to work a certain percentage of the population needs to be done. With limited amounts of vaccine I can't see how that can happen. Of course it will protect those who are already exposed to the virus, but those sheltering may be lulled into a false sense of security because they have been vaccinated.

I’m interested to hear you say that BlueBelle, as I’m a very recent retiree from the NHS, and I don’t know of anybody working in the frontline of the NHS who doesn’t want the vaccine, most are keen to have it done as soon as possible. There’s nothing like seeing your colleagues and friends in ITU to make your mind up, and there are literally hundreds of Covid patients in our local hospital at the moment.

trisher

Can anyone explain to me if you can get it more than once, if the vaccine is only available for some people and presumably has only a limited period of protection how exactly it will be safe for vulnerable people to mix with others once they are vaccinated? Presumable the virus will remain in the community in the unvaccinated, so it is entiely possible that it will still be active when the vaccine protection runs out particularly as there will be no long term studies available to show how long immunity lasts.

I'm not to worried about safety or who actually administers the vaccination, but this concerns me too.

I have thought all along that people's expectations of the vaccine are unrealistic. Hopefully, they will stop the person vaccinated from developing symptoms which kill, but they won't stop transmission for many months or years. People will still need to take precautions.

It won't be like the certificates for Yellow Fever or vaccinations against measles.

It would be unethical to expose half of those vaccinated to the infection and half not. Therefore, we can't know whether vaccination stops transmission until significant numbers of a population have been exposed to Covid 19 by accident. It will then take sophisticated modelling to work out whether there is less infection in those who have been vaccinated than those who haven't.

I don’t think anyone is saying that everything will go back to normal as soon as most people have been vaccinated. We’ll still have to adhere to hands, face, space, ventilate for a while till we know how long immunity lasts. But people that had the previous SARS virus are still protected after many years and there’s no reason why this virus will be different.