No jab no job

M0nica

I would defend to the death everyiindividuals right to decide whether they have the COVID vaccination or any other or not.

However, some actions or inactions have consequences. I would think it unreasonable to make a sweeping and universal decree no jab, no job, but I do consider it reasonable to say to those who have not had the jab that you cannot work with highly vulnerable people, those in care for any reason or receiving care at home, and anyone in a patient contact job in the NHS and private medical services.

Unfortunately the second paragraph of this post contradicts the first paragraph.

I too would defend someone's right to choose not to have the jab. Absolutely, not conditionally.

There still is.

Smokers were not kicked out. Companies simply introduced 'no smoking' policies from a specified date and if you smoked in the office after that, you were out.

There used to be little groups of people clustering outside the office in the rain, all smoking and adverising their addiction to tobacco to all and sundry.

Smokers were not kicked out of the work place they still had a job. I think it will be very interesting legally. If you insist a care worker has a jab or lose their job and yet they are expected to work with residents who refuse a vaccination.

Grannyrose15 you may want to read this, it refers to the number of deaths under the age of 60 due to COVID for England and Wales. It isn’t just killing older people.

fullfact.org/online/covid-death-rate-under-60/

It will be late summer or autumn before vaccination will have been offered to all ages. By then, there should be a clearer idea about whether vaccination reduces transmission.

Smokers were kicked out of the work place, passive smokers now less at risk now thanks to that.
Same should apply to workplace non vaccination workers.
You can see this as a court case in the future, Man slaughter?

No jab no job and no jab no travel seems logical to me. I wouldn’t want to spend 10 hours on a plane with unvaccinated fellow passengers or crew.
What about restaurants, theatres and the like?
I could not get worked up if a gardener was unvaccinated but what about a hairdresser?
Would I want my grandchildren sitting next to a child in class who was unvaccinated?
It does make you think.

I'm not sure I made it clear.

The 2,962 deaths in the 15-79 age group were in one week.

GrannyRose15

M0nica

Grannyrose15 Could you quantify your statement Vaccination is totally unnecessary for large swathes of the population.?

A few links to reputable peer reviewed research would be helpful.

Oh come on! How many times do you have to be told that the virus is only dangerous to the old and sick. The average age of death is over 80 FGS.

Vaccinating vast numbers of people for whom it causes only mild symptoms is UNETHICAL.

It is this hysteria that is causing more damage than the actual disease.

In the week ending 5 February 2021, there were 7,320 deaths with Covid-19 on the death certificate in England and Wales. The total number of deaths from all causes registered during the week was 17,192. The average number of deaths in the corresponding week from 2015-2019 was 11,612. The excess in 2020 was 5,580 and it's reasonable to assume that Covid-19 was responsible for most of them (if not all).

Of the Covid-19 deaths, 2,962 were in the 15-79 age group.

Covid-19 doesn't just kill people over 80.

Furthermore, the there would have been more deaths if people weren't taking precautions.

Covid-19 affects people of all ages. Admittedly, younger people tend to be less severely affected, but not all. Approximately 1 in 7 will develop Long Covid, which could be life changing, and younger people can infect more vulnerable people.

Everybody needs to be vaccinated to protect the whole population and it isn't unethical to aim to do so. The hysterical rantings from Covid deniers are causing damage by leading to lack of decisive action by our people-pleasing leaders and justifying people to break the rules. If the country had gone in harder from the start, we wouldn't have had so much damage to jobs, education and people's lives.

I found this interesting, written by an employment lawyer. It looks as though there would have to be significant changes to law, taking into account the Human Rights Act, before this could be enacted. He also raises the issue of proportionality of risk. I think employers will need to be very careful not to lay themselves wide open to legal challenges and potentially very expensive claims.

I daresay this has already been said but here goes. We know the vaccine cannot be compulsory but we are coming up for a year of deaths, lockdowns, businesses ruined, jobs lost, education in tatters and mental health, domestic violence and child abuse on the rise. All these can be laid at the door of Covid-19. It clearly isn't going to vanish of its own accord so we must learn to live with it. Thanks must go to the splendid scientists who have discovered vaccines that will allow us to do that because we cannot continue to live as we have for much longer. The minority of people refusing the vaccination can't expect the same freedom as those who have received it. Post vaccinations, Covid-19 will still be here and we may still have to observe distancing and wearing masks. On a personal level when I can return to my many groups and enjoy theatre trips again I hope I am sitting by someone who is also vaccinated. I agree with no job, no jab and I hope they extend that to packed venues such as sports stadiums, theatres, cinemas and festivals.

I would defend to the death everyiindividuals right to decide whether they have the COVID vaccination or any other or not.

However, some actions or inactions have consequences. I would think it unreasonable to make a sweeping and universal decree no jab, no job, but I do consider it reasonable to say to those who have not had the jab that you cannot work with highly vulnerable people, those in care for any reason or receiving care at home, and anyone in a patient contact job in the NHS and private medical services.

StatenIsland, that pension demand might be suggested when the ‘no jab, no job’ is applied to people already in a job.
Since most state pensions have been paid for twice-through wages and tax on pension, that would be like stealing people’s savings.
I do wonder how many of that 25% are elderly people who haven’t been offered or been able to take up a jab, like some mentioned here on GN and other media.

The thread is titled No Jab No Job. In other words, No Jab No Wage.

From yesterday’s Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/18/nhs-covid-health-service-patient-research

Covid-19 has exposed the need to address NHS capacity and resilience. In normal times, flu puts huge pressure on the health service during winter months. Routine care suffers, operations are cancelled and NHS staff struggle with the backlog over the summer. This backlog will be far worse after Covid. Any doubt that we need more capacity in the NHS and social care has evaporated. The question is what kind of capacity, and where?

The ONS is reporting a 75% take up of the flu vaccine (up from 72.4% lat year).

www.gov.uk/government/news/flu-vaccine-uptake-among-people-aged-65-on-track-to-be-highest-on-record

In other words, 25% of elderly people who could have the flu vaccine don't.

What would be the response to No Jab No Pension?

M0nica

Grannyrose15 Could you quantify your statement Vaccination is totally unnecessary for large swathes of the population.?

A few links to reputable peer reviewed research would be helpful.

Oh come on! How many times do you have to be told that the virus is only dangerous to the old and sick. The average age of death is over 80 FGS.

Vaccinating vast numbers of people for whom it causes only mild symptoms is UNETHICAL.

It is this hysteria that is causing more damage than the actual disease.

M0nica unfortunately their leaders have believed such reports. Even the younger age group now believes the AZ is a second class vaccine. As I said I’ve been more than happy to have it at 70+.

BlueSky, Here is a link to an article in the British Medical Journal discussing this German report and why the organisation circulating the news misinterpreted the statistics. www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n414

It is strange how when misintepreted or malicious data is published, it is what people remember, whereas when the correct data or interepretation is published, everybody ignores it and sticks to the incorrect interpretation.

A

My brother in Germany doesn’t want the Pfizer jab after something he read in the German press. He’s watching to see if it affects me.

As I mentioned before my French and Italian friends are quite concerned when I tell them I’ve had the Oxford AZ. Over there it has only be recommended for the under 65 and 55 respectively. This could partly explain why they are so slow compared to the UK. I’m quite happy and grateful.

Any thoughts on whether visitors to hospital (at a time when it's possible) should have to show proof of being vaccinated?

suziewoozie what about all the current initatives I have listed above? of course there will be examples of bad practice, name me any interaction in ordinary life that does not happen in.

Well that’s more encouraging news sw about the French resistance to vaccines.

I wish I were in the Malaga sunshine but I’m grateful to be here with the quicker roll out vaccination programme. Not one of my Spanish neighbours (registered residents) have been offered a jab yet - and 5 of them are well into their 80’s. They are quite concerned, especially when they watch our news and see how far on we are.

Sorry, back to the thread.

Oh * Galaxy* moi aussi tellement ??

I wish I was in France at the moment. I miss it and the French people.