GPs and opening times, whats going on

Maddyone If we have not paid enough in NI to expect a decent service from the NHS, whose fault is that? Surely it is up to the government to ensure that enough is paid in, and if that means increasing contributions, then that is what needs to be done.

NI is deducted at source, so if people are told that by paying it they are contributing to the NHS, their state pension, sick pay and so on, they can't be blamed for believing this to be the case.

If the government has got its sums wrong, or has decided that those who can't afford to pay for private healthcare are less important than those who can, they are the ones who should be held to account, not those who work hard and pay what they are asked to, on the understanding that they are pulling their weight.

Sorry to hear that JaneJudge. Can she not change surgery?

I didn’t mean you have demanded anything Grannygangan. I know you would like to see your GP. Can you not request a face to face appointment at your surgery?

Mine has been fine throughout, they do phone, email and in person consultations but it's a big medical centre. My Mother in law otoh has been so severely neglected by her GP service elsewhere that I actually think she may meet a premature (for her) death and that makes me very sad.

Grannygangan
Thank you for that, I appreciate it. How awful that you’ve lost two family and friends from the virus. It is indeed a horrible experience.
I don’t think I said that you personally had said GPs were too lazy or frightened to see patients face to face. But the implication has definitely been there from at least one other post, possibly more. In addition, I’ve seen a direct accusation on another thread which actually mentioned GPs being too frightened to see patients.

I hope your friend recovers. It is indeed terrible for people who have other serious conditions during this pandemic, and I’m not minimising that. I realise that some people have sadly died during this difficult time because they were unable to access the consultants they needed, usually because the consultants were working on the Covid wards, and sometimes because the hospital was virtually closed to all except Covid patients. Having said that, I managed to see my Hand Surgery Consultant following surgery last January (just pre Covid) and I had mostly video appointments with the hand therapist for my physiotherapy which was fine for me. I realise it’s more difficult for the very elderly who can’t manage the technology.

No, certainly not all bad. I think the NHS is wonderful, and has always met my needs and my family’s needs. But for those who are complaining about GPs being unavailable as they would like them to be, I’m afraid that phone consultations and video consultations are possibly here to stay. GPs will always see patients face to face, but in all honesty, many consultations do not require a face to face appointment. As for waiting or not getting an appointment the same day, well expecting that, unless it is a true emergency, is entitled in my opinion. And until, or unless we get more GPs, this form of rationing will always be with us I’m afraid. Also complaining about waiting a couple of weeks for routine nurse appointments for BP check or blood tests or whatever, well it’s routine, not urgent, and at the moment nurses are busy doing vaccinations.

I understand your frustration as you can’t get to see your GP about your pain. Surely he/she is offering video consultations? I also understand that some people are genuinely upset because they can’t get to see their GP in person. Perhaps many of them are older and just like the system as it was, but things change, pandemics bring change, technology brings change, not enough doctors forces change, and things move onwards. The days of sitting waiting in a surgery for your turn seem to be well and truly over.

What I dislike intensely is the way some people criticise their GPs just because things are not as they were, and they can’t get what they want. We have to work with the system as it is, and that way we’ll get the best out of the system. We have to understand why doctors are leaving the country and that it then puts more pressure on the system. And we all have to understand that yes, the system is underfunded (it always has been) and that by paying NI when we worked doesn’t even half cover the cost of our pensions, NHS, and ongoing medical care, and paying NI in our working lives doesn’t entitle us to demand anything.

How on earth can you have a £10 charge to see a doctor when we have food banks. Stupid idea.

I am indeed pleased that you recovered from Covid, maddyone!

Why would I not be? Having lost a brother-in-law and a neighbour from the virus I am well aware of how awful it is. I have also heard of the nightmares that have been seen in A&E.

But please understand that I have not said that GPs are too lazy/frightened to see patients

I think we're on different pages.

I totally agree about funding and lack of staff. I know all about it. I'd say most of us do.

But as you've said you have received excellent care from both GPs and hospitals alike. So it's not all bad.

But not everyone has. I can't just dismiss my much loved friend worrying herself silly, endlessly phoning doctors only to give up and call 111 who told her to go to A&E immediately. She has an aggressive cancer. All she says is if only she'd gone to A&E 8 months ago.

I have chronic pain which causes endless problems. I need to see a GP. But my GP isn't offering face to face appointments for the likes of me. My daughter is having similar issues with her son and is chronic glue ear. She is prescribed ointment over the phone but he needs to be examined.

So some people are genuinely upset because their GP won't see them. Whereas others will see their patients. Not fair springs to mind.

And I'm never sarcastic.

Lowest form of wit apparently.

Some GPs are beginning to do facetime or video calls. A lot of the time this is enough. If you insist on seeing a GP face to face they are supposed to arrange this. I have actually found the new ways of use and on the two occasions when things were more serious we used 111 and it was quite good if a little longer time scale than they suggest.

So you got Covid? Goodness. Thankfully you got better despite our NHS not having enough money.

I’d like to think this was meant kindly, because I was extremely ill and could very easily have died. I received magnificent care from our overworked and short staffed doctors and nurses whilst I was in the hospital. I rather think it might have been meant sarcastically though. Sadly!

However, I’m not the one complaining about our GPs being too lazy or frightened to see their patients face to face. That’s been the complaint of others, not me. I have merely pointed out some of the reasons why it’s difficult in some cases, to see a GP personally.

My surgery started telephone appointments well before Covid. You ring at 8.00, as does everyone else who needs an appointment, if the line is engaged you keep trying, usually until you have missed the last telephone appointment, in which case you try again the next day.

Working people are likely to be commuting at 8.00am, so the chances are they will have to decide to be late for work in order to try to get an appointment, and this could go on for days until they actually secure one.

If the receptionist is happy to let you have a GP appointment (and that is a whole other thread in itself) you have to wait for a callback. They don't even give an approximate time, so unless you don't work and live alone, or work and have an office to yourself, the chances of this happening in private are slim. Parents may be discussing personal matters in earshot of children, workers in front of colleagues, a pregnant daughter may have to take a call in front of an abusive father, and so on. The concept of patient confidentiality goes out of the window.

If you have internet access, you can try to book a telephone appointment online, but these are very limited, and if you don't do it at midnight or very soon after, you have no chance of that, either, and you still go on the list for an appointment with no time attached.

The GPs themselves are very good, as are the nursing staff, but it is clear that they are overstretched. We have lived here for over 30 years, and the service has been cut back massively.

There used to be home visits available for children or the elderly, Saturday 'turn up and wait' appointments for those who couldn't easily get time off work midweek, same day appointments, continuity of care with a doctor who knew you, and so on. Now, the policy is to refer as many people as possible to hospital consultants, who operate in silos so there is nobody with an overview of a patient's care, and people rarely get to see a GP, never mind get to know one.

A telephone appointment can be a good thing for all the reasons people have mentioned on the thread, and they are possibly ideal for the retired or otherwise non-working people who live alone, but they should be an additional service, with face to face appointments available to those who need privacy and to have their symptoms examined.

* maddyone*

...whether we’ve paid taxes or not

The NHS has to be paid for. Doctors and nurses cost money. Until everyone realises that the NHS isn’t free, we’ll go on talking about this

Of course we know the NHS isn’t free. As well as ‘entitled’, you’re now implying we’re stupid as well. The point I was trying to make was that we all, as human beings, within a state-funded system, are entitled to a decent standard of care whether or not we are taxpayers.

Your suggestion of a £10 charge per GP visit would deter many many people on low incomes, and their children, from seeking the care and advice they need and lead to even greater health inequalities.

Grannygangan

I suspect that you are relying on hearsay when you say you know lots of people aren’t getting the face to face appointments they wish to have. Are you complaining about patients not being seen face to face by their GP, or about patients lack of access to hospital consultants? Two separate issues. Of course consultants want to see their patients, but they couldn’t do that at the height of the epidemic, and now there’s a backlog. And we’ve lost about a thousand medics from Covid which will also impact on patient care. Others, particularly GPs, are leaving to work elsewhere, but you’re not interested in why. This will also impact on service provision. Some surgeries are able to operate better than others because they have been able to find, keep, or afford more staff. Other surgeries are short staffed and this impacts on services. Perhaps you and others could consider the reasons things are as they are, rather than just complaining.

Ours remains very efficient even if most consultations are online. I’m sure it has been a very difficult time for all involved in the health profession - one member of their staff who contracts Covid has a a massive effect on them of course, but also on the whole practise and who they can treat so hopefully everyone is mindful of this. Not only are they seeing people virtually or in the surgery in a COVID safe way, but they are also helping to roll out the vaccines. I think they are doing an amazing job and have nothing but praise for them. I guess as in any situation there are those who dont fulfil the expected standards, but def think they are few and far between.

...we know you’ve had Covid, which you wouldn’t have caught if your DH had followed the guidelines to the letter....

Wrong! My mother caught Covid whilst she was in hospital. She was tested twice before she was released and both times she tested negative. The hospital staff told us that she had no need to isolate when at home as she was not Covid positive. My husband visited her as we were in a support bubble with her. He visited to move some furniture that required moving so that she could use her new walker around her apartment, as she had fallen, had a head injury, and was now no longer steady on her feet. Unfortunately my mother had picked up Covid in the hospital, unbeknown to anyone, including the hospital. My husband picked it up from her, and I picked it up from him.
So growstuff you are completely wrong. We followed all guidelines and advice from the hospital. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from spreading lies maliciously about me and my family.

By the way, what would you have done. Perhaps you’d have said stuff the old lady, I’m going nowhere near her as she’s been in hospital with a head injury, but I’m not going to move the furniture so she’ll be able to get around her flat. Maybe you’d have said she’ll just have to manage?

How do you know that a lot of doctors aren’t seeing patients? Are you privy to all the information regarding how many doctors see how many patients. And of course referrals are down. There’s a pandemic on.

I do know that lots of patients aren't being seen, because like you I have medics in my family. I hear what they say. Bit like you and your daughter I suppose.

You think it's OK that people aren't being seen by a GP because there's a pandemic? But your surgery is doing great, apparently. So why is that? I thought we didn't have enough GPs. But you do as do many other people. Maybe it's a post code lottery. Who knows.

Anecdotal of course, but I've been unable to get a face to face appointment. I do rather need one but I'll just keep on trying.
My friend, who I mentioned before is at a different surgery to me tried endlessly to get a face to face appointment. I mentioned she got diagnosed with cancer at A&E because she just couldn't get an appointment.

There is also loads of information about the worry of what will happen to all these people who have missed out on referrals.

So you got Covid? Goodness. Thankfully you got better despite our NHS not having enough money.

I too have family members in the medical profession. All medics, especially oncologists are very concerned at what's happening.

Why not do some research and not just rely on your daughter for information.

Incidentally, the Conservatives have been in government for 11 years and the NHS receives less per capita funding adjusted for inflation than it did in 2010. The population continues to age and there are more needy patients. An increasing number of contracts have been outsourced with shareholders needing to be paid. There have been two fundamental and expensive reorganisations which have not resulted in better services. How are the Conservatives not responsible for underfunding?

Our surgery had been getting GPs to ring to decide if we needed an appointment or home visit for some time before the pandemic. I haven't needed an appointment for the last year but the pharmacy told me I needed a medication review so I rang the surgery. 19th in the queue but I left the phone on speaker and got on with other stuff till I reached the top. I was told the surgery's prescriber would ring me back. She rang back, tweeked my prescription a bit and suggested I have a blood test. Had to book the test at one of their other surgeries as my local one is being used for vaccinations

"The NHS has to be paid for. Doctors and nurses cost money. Until everyone realises that the NHS isn’t free, we’ll go on talking about this."

How bl**dy patronising!! Yes, we're all thick. We didn't realise somebody needs to pay for the NHS.

Mamardoit

I think our GP surgery does a fantastic job. We have had a triage system for many years. The GP rings back and decides if you need to see him or her. We make separate appointments to see the nurses or for blood tests etc. There is sometimes a bit of a wait for these. DH needs regular blood tests before his hospital appointments and they always manage to fit a blood test in if it's urgent.

We almost always get a same day/next day appointment for a face to face with the doctor if that is necessary. Young children are always seen on the same day even if parents phone later in the afternoon.

The surgery staff have been at the vaccine hub nearly every weekend and now they are doing extra clinics at the surgery vaccinating people under 30. I know this because my own sons have been called for their first vaccine next week.

So why can't my practice be like this? BTW the staff haven't been at the vaccine hub every day. It's only open once a week maximum and it's mainly the nurses and paramedics who have been doing the vaccinating.

maddyone

It’s pointless being angry with me for speaking a truth people don’t want to hear. Be angry about the chronic underfunding of the NHS over years. It’s no use just blaming Boris Johnson, this has gone on with successive governments over years and years.
And no, we’ve not paid sufficient in taxes to provide the kind of service that patients want and doctors want to provide. So many people think that because they’ve paid their NI contributions that they are then entitled to a full pension and free NHS care, plus social care for those who need it. When will people understand the NI contribution doesn’t even cover your pension, let alone the medical care that most people need as they grow older.
Yes, your post makes me angry. Just the level of entitlement that I’m speaking of.

But we are entitled maddyone. Your attitude makes me livid. (And, yes, we all know your DD is a GP and works so hard and is emigrating.) And we know you've had Covid, which you wouldn't have caught if your DH had followed the guidelines to the letter, which many of us have.

I am damned well entitled to a decent service from my GP. Not only do I have chronic conditions, which haven't been followed up this year, but I have needed a very rare face-to-face visit. How dare you tell me that I'm "entitled"?

Mamardoit
The situation at your surgery sounds similar to the situation at my surgery. If you need a doctor, you will see or hear from one, usually the same day.

Grannygangan
How do you know that a lot of doctors aren’t seeing patients? Are you privy to all the information regarding how many doctors see how many patients. And of course referrals are down. There’s a pandemic on. When I was hospitalised with Covid there were 500 plus Covid patients in hospital at the same time as me. 40% of the staff were off sick or isolating. Staff were moved from other departments to work with Covid patients. So other department’s weren’t seeing referrals. It will gradually get back to normal. It really isn’t rocket science. It’s quite easy to work out even if you are lucky enough to have not been hospitalised with Covid.

I think our GP surgery does a fantastic job. We have had a triage system for many years. The GP rings back and decides if you need to see him or her. We make separate appointments to see the nurses or for blood tests etc. There is sometimes a bit of a wait for these. DH needs regular blood tests before his hospital appointments and they always manage to fit a blood test in if it's urgent.

We almost always get a same day/next day appointment for a face to face with the doctor if that is necessary. Young children are always seen on the same day even if parents phone later in the afternoon.

The surgery staff have been at the vaccine hub nearly every weekend and now they are doing extra clinics at the surgery vaccinating people under 30. I know this because my own sons have been called for their first vaccine next week.

You've been attacking all of us who have dared to disagree with you

Pot, kettle?

I think most people are well aware that the NHS is underfunded.

However this thread is about GPs who aren't seeing patients. Granted, some are. But a lot aren't. Referrals are way down due to this. Which is very problematic if you are concerned about certain symptoms and you can't get a face to face appointment.

Why don't you start a thread about NHS underfunding?

Because we have an NHS.

An NHS has to be paid for. And we don’t have enough doctors.
There’s none so deaf as though who will not hear.