GPs and opening times, whats going on

I think there’s only one entitled person on this whole thread.

If you don’t like the message, attack the messenger.

...whether we’ve paid taxes or not.

The NHS has to be paid for. Doctors and nurses cost money. Until everyone realises that the NHS isn’t free, we’ll go on talking about this. And all the time we are losing doctors and nurses to work in other countries where they are valued properly. You may not be aware, but there are several agencies set up specifically to aid doctors moving to other countries. I know this because my daughter and her husband have used one such agency. These agencies wouldn’t exist if large numbers of doctors weren’t leaving this country.
Perhaps you could consider why so many doctors have had enough of the situation in Britain. Perhaps you could consider what could be done to stop it. But without understanding of the problem, there will never be a solution. And by reading Gransnet, I conclude that the problem isn’t even acknowledged, let alone understood.

Many other countries do this, in fact most in Europe do this. Why not Britain?

Because we have an NHS!

And no, not everyone could afford a tenner to visit the doctor. As for dentists, if an NHS one isn't available, which is almost the norm, people just don't go to the dentist. They have to suffer.

I think there's only one entitled person on this whole thread!

growstuff
Taxation should be increased. But not just lump it on to others (the easy way, I don’t need to pay, others can pay for me.) High earners and ourselves need to pay more for our NHS.

maddyone in recent years, the word ‘entitled’ has come to mean having unrealistic expectations which aren’t deserved or merited. That was the sense in which you were using it about posters on this thread.

I haven’t seen any of that sort of entitlement here, or indeed on Gransnet generally. Posters want only to have their health concerns addressed in a timely fashion, and be treated with dignity and respect when they do turn to the NHS.
I think that is the least we are entitled to as human beings, whether we’ve paid taxes or not.

The ridiculous arguments made by some that there shouldn’t be a small charge for a face to face appointment are really unbelievable! How the (expletive deleted) do you think countries such as New Zealand manage? They make a small charge to see a GP. And New Zealand is held up as an example to us all of how a well managed society operates. There’s absolutely nothing either untoward or wrong in paying a small charge to see a GP. Many other countries do this, in fact most in Europe do this. Why not Britain? A small charge, not to the doctor, but to the NHS, would help towards employing more GPs. We pay to go to the dentist, why not the doctor?

In her role as a GP, my daughter has had patients demand a prescription for........sun cream! I kid you not. And demands for.......nit lotion! Again I kid you not.
And some people think the public don’t feel themselves entitled!

It’s pointless being angry with me for speaking a truth people don’t want to hear. Be angry about the chronic underfunding of the NHS over years. It’s no use just blaming Boris Johnson, this has gone on with successive governments over years and years.
And no, we’ve not paid sufficient in taxes to provide the kind of service that patients want and doctors want to provide. So many people think that because they’ve paid their NI contributions that they are then entitled to a full pension and free NHS care, plus social care for those who need it. When will people understand the NI contribution doesn’t even cover your pension, let alone the medical care that most people need as they grow older.
Yes, your post makes me angry. Just the level of entitlement that I’m speaking of.

How about increasing taxation, especially for high earners and owners of substantial assets, and funding it properly?

And sending some of them for a crash course at a charm school?

growstuff

Gannygangan The trouble is if you paid £10 to jump the queue you'd be pushing others even further back.

Exactly, growstuff

Which is why this payment suggested by maddyone is unfair in a country where we have an NHS.

How can it be right that those who can pay get seen and those who can't end up in pain/ill/dying?

Also this business of GPs rushing off to better climates. Despite the tuition fees they pay, they still get a whole lot of. their training paid by the taxpayers.

On average, it costs about £600.000 to train a GP.

Gannygangan The trouble is if you paid £10 to jump the queue you'd be pushing others even further back.

I'm glad I'm not the only one janeainsworth.

I have a couple of consultants in my family, maddyone

They are extremely worried about the massive drop in cancer referrals from GPs

It's an horrendous situation and tragic for the 16 GPs who have died from Covid.

But we are going to see a vast rise in deaths from other causes . Some surgeries have been brilliant and remained open as best they can.

But there's a lot that are failing

Personally I'd be quite happy to pay £10 for a face to face appointment, even more if need be

But many people won't be able to afford that

We either have an NHS or we don't

Some of the comments on here show just how entitled some people are

Well actually maddyone we are entitled.
We’ve paid our NI contributions, we pay our taxes and we [expletive deleted] well are entitled to receive a safe service that doesn’t make us feel as though we should grovel in gratitude.
You seem to blame us the public for the government underfunding and NHS management failures.

It isn’t only patients who are entitled. NHS staff, the doctors and nurses who provide the service, having given years of their lives training, and incurred considerable debt doing so, are entitled to a working environment that allows them to practise to the high standards they have been taught and that doesn’t compromise their professional integrity. I often wonder how many of the cases which come before the GMC and other professional bodies are actually victims of the NHS system and whatever failings they have manifested wouldn’t have happened if they weren’t working in such a pressured environment.
Just google Dr Hadiza Bawa-Garba if you’re wondering what I’m on about.

I realise the the pandemic has put time constraints on GP practices. But phone consultations are not the way forward as you seem to think. A good GP will pick up far more from a face-to -face consultation than what the patient actually says.

Sorry but your post has made me angry.

suziewoozie

There is absolutely no excuse for the appalling service suffered by grow and others, none whatsoever. Firstly the online system that many surgeries have should be mandatory. That then leaves the phone lines free for those unable to access or use the internet. The service I’ve had all year is excellent but absolutely possible for every surgery and there are no excuses.

There are no excuses suzie but there is a reason. There are not enough GPs. We have lost some who have died of Covid and others are choosing to go to work in other countries where conditions of service and pay are better. This country haemorrhages GPs but you don’t hear about it. I know because three members of my family are GPs. Unless and until we improve the situation for GPs nothing will change, and it will probably get worse.
Nonetheless I have had excellent service from my GP and the Practice.

I expect a professional service

Our doctors are amongst the best in the world, and they are sought after by many other countries. That’s why the NHS is haemorrhaging doctors to Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere. My daughter and her husband are leaving next month to go to work in New Zealand for a year, and when they experience the better conditions of service out there, it wouldn’t surprise me if they decide to stay. That’s two less GPs in the system.
If people want a better system, it has to be paid for by the public. That means you and I need to pay more tax. Massively more tax because to improve the service to the level of New Zealand for example, would cost an enormous amount of money. There GPs are only expected to work 36 hours per week and they are given 15 minutes per appointment. That means they see fewer patients than British GPs per day but have longer to spend with each patient. Each patient has to pay a small amount for their consultation. Perhaps that’s the way forward. Ten pounds per face to face consultation perhaps?

Some of the comments on here show just how entitled some people are

Not sure if that was hurled at me, maddyone

Do you think my friend was entitled?

She had symptoms. She rang her GP many times over many months. She could never get an appointment despite quite obvious symptoms.

So she went to A&E as I mentioned.

Stage 4 cancer was found.

You think she was entitled?

And actually, pre-Covid we could ring up and get an appointment on the same day. Possibly not with your named GP but one would always be available. The virus has caused rationing and rightly so. But there needs to be more care taken and GPs need to make more of an effort to see patients.

If they're not careful we will see that we don't need them and get GPs just to answer calls.

There is absolutely no excuse for the appalling service suffered by grow and others, none whatsoever. Firstly the online system that many surgeries have should be mandatory. That then leaves the phone lines free for those unable to access or use the internet. The service I’ve had all year is excellent but absolutely possible for every surgery and there are no excuses.

Some of the comments on here show just how entitled some people are. People don’t get a same day appointment even if they are going private and paying, nor do most people get a same day appointment in countries where the patient pays. Note Nanna8’s comment. I believe she lives in Australia. The totally free (at the point of care) service has lead to an outrageous sense of entitlement. There are insufficient GPs in this country. That’s why it’s difficult at some surgeries to get an appointment. The government doesn’t fund the NHS well enough to give you all an on demand service and so there is rationing. You have to wait for appointments for GP or hospital consultant. Nonetheless we do have an excellent NHS as shown by how it has dealt with the Covid situation.

Jaxjacky

I’ve used our online consultation twice in the last year, two phone calls back and subsequently two face to face appointments with one fast track referral, so I have no complaints. One call back was at 7pm and I know of people who’ve had prescriptions authorised at 10pm, they are working hard alongside managing the vaccinations. You can still ring if no internet access.

But there's no point in ringing when the queues are so long. The only time anybody can ring is at 8am, which is useless for people on the way to work or trying to get children off to school.

H1954 I do accept all that, but there's no excuse for rudeness.

Do you honestly think people would insist on a face-to-face appointment if one weren't necessary? In my case, it certainly was necessary and I was made to feel guilty for insisting on it. I came off the phone in tears of frustration.

I am not somebody who rings up the GP for a minor sniffle or to make an enquiry which I can resolve elsewhere. I have done everything I can - and more - to ensure I don't become infected with Covid and I expect a professional service. I really can't afford to pay for private consultations.

maddyone

Can’t see any problem with it. If the doctor needs to do a physical examination he/she will ask you to go into the surgery. If not, they will prescribe over the phone and send the script to your pharmacy for you to pick up. What on earth is wrong with that?
It’s safe, it’s convenient. What’s not to like?

But maddyone, it isn't safe.

We all know that cancer cases are not being picked up. Anecdotally, I know a woman who has cancer that was only picked up when she went to A&E in despair. She struggled for months to get a real appointment with the GP but was fobbed off as menopausal and got prescribed an anti-depressant.

This is happening everywhere.

The trouble is GPs do not ask you to go for a face to face appointment in many places. They can't just have a phone call and decide if someone needs to be seen or not. It's ridiculous.

I've been trying to get one for months.

Also, if it's so easy why do we have GPs and surgeries? Surely we could just employ doctors to answer phones and save the NHS a fortune.

It's awful and many people are suffering

We have to pay so we can usually get appointments but not the same day unless it is urgent. Most hospital emergency depts are free but not all of them. It is a sort of hybrid system somewhere between the UK and the USA. I wish we had the NHS here.

Ours has been reasonably OK, but there was one time when the queueing system was so overloaded that I was getting the engaged tone! When I finally got through I burst into tears when she said that there weren't any appointments, she took pity on me and gave me one for the next day I hope that they go back to face to face appointments, there is no substitute for actually seeing people.

I’ve used our online consultation twice in the last year, two phone calls back and subsequently two face to face appointments with one fast track referral, so I have no complaints. One call back was at 7pm and I know of people who’ve had prescriptions authorised at 10pm, they are working hard alongside managing the vaccinations. You can still ring if no internet access.