Payment for prescriptions

kittylester

Quite growstuff, see my previous posts. Though the NHS is unique.

And, I did say 'experienced' not done the job.

Off now to eat steak, drink wine and chunter about the NHS.

... and avoid giving any details

volver 'remember' Yes, Primee Minister?
During lockdown we watched both series; Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister and found them as applicable to the way our current government runs as they were when they were first filmed back in the 1980s. Apart from some of the technology, little has changed.

It would have been deepy, deeply depressing had we not been laughing so much.

This seems timely ?????

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAk448volww

Remember that Yes Prime Minister from long ago?

"That's a very good idea, but it wouldn't work in our department, Prime Minister"

Quite growstuff, see my previous posts. Though the NHS is unique.

And, I did say 'experienced' not done the job.

Off now to eat steak, drink wine and chunter about the NHS.

Actually kittylester, when evaluating an organisation, it's useful to bring in people who haven't worked in that particular organisation because they haven't been institutionalised. The principles of good management are fairly universal.

kittylester

I have no doubt you are a brilliant manager volver but can hardly pass a comment on NHS Managers unless you have experienced management in the NHS. Seems logical to me.

growstuff I have had this argument on gn previously. I can't be bothered again. But, maybe, take note of someone with experience.

I hadn't realised you had significant NHS management experience. I'm still waiting for this discussion to progress - it never does.

Now who's being condescending?

I have no doubt you are a brilliant manager volver

Logical is it? You said above that it needs people who know how to run big companies. I assume by "companies" you mean "organisations". Well if you want that, plus a background in the NHS, I think you'll find that difficult to achieve. Can't have both straight away.

I have no doubt you are a brilliant manager volver but can hardly pass a comment on NHS Managers unless you have experienced management in the NHS. Seems logical to me.

growstuff I have had this argument on gn previously. I can't be bothered again. But, maybe, take note of someone with experience.

There was a recent report about NHS management (King's Fund I think), which said the problem with NHS management is that managers aren't allowed to manage ie do their jobs. The issue is that there are so many directives from the centre that managers are reduced to clerical roles and can't actually make any decisions. You don't have to have worked in the NHS for decades to understand a criticism like that.

kittylester

I am not going over all that again growstuff.

It needs rethinking by someone with no political bias and an understanding of how big companies are run.

How condescending can you get volver?

Shame! People are always complaining about NHS management, but nobody ever says what these unnecessary managers do. I guess they say it because everybody else does.

How condescending can you get volver?

I can get really condescending. Its my superpower.

But not quite as condescending as telling someone who has never worked in the NHS, but knows about running organisations, that they don't have a valid opinion on how to run it.

I am not going over all that again growstuff.

It needs rethinking by someone with no political bias and an understanding of how big companies are run.

How condescending can you get volver?

kittylester

If you haven't worked in the NHS how can you judge whether it needs more management. It needs better management. As someone who was on the periphery of the NHS for 50+ years I can tell you that it is the number of managers that are out of control.

I would have thought that it was obvious that what people need from the NHS now is vastly different from what we needed at it's inception.

It needs completely rethinking and bringing into the 21st century.

What roles do the superfluous managers do?

kittylester

If you haven't worked in the NHS how can you judge whether it needs more management. It needs better management. As someone who was on the periphery of the NHS for 50+ years I can tell you that it is the number of managers that are out of control.

I would have thought that it was obvious that what people need from the NHS now is vastly different from what we needed at it's inception.

It needs completely rethinking and bringing into the 21st century.

How?

tigger

The problem with the NHS is lack of funding over the years and bad management. Doctors aren't necessarily good managers. I firmly believe in the original principle which should be maintained. However if people wish to pay then go privately.

Bad managers or bad management systems?

Baggytrazzas

I think it is quiet obvious that the NHS currently has enough or just about enough funding, and it overall probably has sufficient numbers of staff - medical and admin including managers, but that there are lots of people in the wrong jobs, or are not good enough in their jobs. Its not enough simply to " work for the NHS" -unless everyone is trained and has sufficient experience to carry out each individual role then the overall effect will always be negative.

I think to sort it out then at least initially additional managers are needed.

Is this a joke?

It's not obvious at all that the NHS has enough funding nor that it has enough staff.

I also think that retired people who work beyond 65 should continue to pay NI and should certainly pay it post 60. I am such a person. My employer took NI from me wrongly in 2017. I got this rectified. Ironically I then broke my arm badly and was in hospitable for four nights and also had to have a GA. I'm sure I cost much more than I'd just got back. It was complicated as it happened in Wales so NHS Wales had to bill my local GP surgery. I'd also be willing to pay something towards a prescription but be aware for years I have paid into a system that has supported other folk who have not paid for a prescription. I have a chronic condition that means being on steroids permanently - and then there are other drugs to counteract side affects. Perhaps pay for prescriptions for acute illnesses, not chronic ones?

I think it is quiet obvious that the NHS currently has enough or just about enough funding, and it overall probably has sufficient numbers of staff - medical and admin including managers, but that there are lots of people in the wrong jobs, or are not good enough in their jobs. Its not enough simply to " work for the NHS" -unless everyone is trained and has sufficient experience to carry out each individual role then the overall effect will always be negative.

I think to sort it out then at least initially additional managers are needed.

People who wish to pay are, basically, ruining it for everyone else. I can completely understand why people want tot pay to have their treatment quickly, but the idea needs to be revised that paying for healthcare is either (a) an option that people are entitled to if they are comparatively well off or (b) an altruistic act that frees up the NHS for the poor folks.

I'm not disagreeing that the NHS needs overhaul, but the very idea that people get better healthcare because they have a bit of money behind them is just so contrary to everything I believe.

The problem with the NHS is lack of funding over the years and bad management. Doctors aren't necessarily good managers. I firmly believe in the original principle which should be maintained. However if people wish to pay then go privately.

OK, better.

Trained managers who know how to run big organisations and who can organise the day to day running of an organisation and its constituent parts. How many of them does it have?

Its clear to anybody who has managed in a big organisation (including me ) that there aren't enough people who know how to manage. I don't mean to criticise anybody working in the NHS, but only the political approach to running it that dispenses with the middle layers of management who do all the management work, and tells people that this is a good thing.

"Better management" doesn't mean "fewer managers".

If you haven't worked in the NHS how can you judge whether it needs more management. It needs better management. As someone who was on the periphery of the NHS for 50+ years I can tell you that it is the number of managers that are out of control.

I would have thought that it was obvious that what people need from the NHS now is vastly different from what we needed at it's inception.

It needs completely rethinking and bringing into the 21st century.

we're seen we've seen

I guess I'm just exasperated by the rash of extreme and baseless statements we're seen on here recently. And this is the latest.

If you think the NHS has changed, why would you say that the NHS hasn't changed? It just strikes me as saying something just for the sake of it because it sounds dramatic.

Personally, I think we don't have enough layers of management because it appears to me - as a former manager who has never worked in the NHS - that it is running out of control and we don't have enough people in place to actually make it work properly. People have posted that they want it run properly but others say we don't need any more managers. How does that work?