GP Confirmed Death at Home by Videocall

Aveline

volver it's one thing to tell us that you are recently bereaved but another to call us 'huffy old ladies'. I'm sorry about your DM but also about the contempt in which you also seem to hold us.

Don't get personal. Stay detached, aveline. This is an important discussion and we don't want it to be deleted.

In response to other comments:
Perhaps the woman's story has to be corroborated before any action can be taken against the GP. Actually, I doubt there's any perhaps about it. Evidence will have to be collected and analysed.

volver it's one thing to tell us that you are recently bereaved but another to call us 'huffy old ladies'. I'm sorry about your DM but also about the contempt in which you also seem to hold us.

something like this happened in my own family but the GP had confirmed the death

I think wrt post mortem it depends whether the death was expected or not and how old someone is.

Glad my post about my dead mum made you laugh Maw.

Thanks JaneJudge

Fleurpepper

I don't want to scare anyone, but I know of at least 1 person who was quickly confirmed as dead by an elderly doctor in a hurry, and the person woke up on the table at the undertaker's.

The whole thing was hushed as the doctor and person's OH belonged to the special secret society with the handshakes!

This is what terrifies me
One similar case received quite a lot of publicity a few years ago.

If someone dies at home does there have to be a post mortem or is that no longer the case?

Indignant old ladies huffing about how the NHS isn't doing its job are just expecting too much, really

???

The current official requirements, set by HM Passport Office

This puzzles me. What has the Passport Office got to do with it?

Disgusting - and dangerous.

I'm sorry to hear about your Mother volver

OK, so I've wondered about whether to post this or not, but here goes.

My DM died recently at home. Very suddenly. There has been no doctor in the house then or since. Indignant old ladies huffing about how the NHS isn't doing its job are just expecting too much, really.

The service wasn't second rate, it was excellent. Stop moaning that you don't get the things you think you are entitled to and stop believing everything the Telegraph tells you.

my friend was treated appallingly by paramedics and then the police when her partner died at home, surely there needs to be a better way of dealing with this

So a second rate service is enough?
No, I’ve had enough experience from both sides to know that a conscientious GP would have found a way to send a qualified medical professional to attend.
Our NHS far from being the “envy of the world”; has declined to being a national embarrassment
Yet again the failings of the NHS are in focus. . More people have reached the point where they feel “this just isn’t working”.and the change has come about because of millions of bad personal experiences.

You beat me to it Glorianny. Good post.

MawtheMerrier

Simply appalling- he should be severely disciplined if not struck off. ???

What a great idea! So we are desperately short of GPs let's get rid of one. You (and the newspaper) have no idea why the GP couldn't attend. Perhaps he was seeing another patient, perhaps she was home with her children and couldn't leave them. Jump in and condemn. No wonder people are leaving the profession in droves.

Simply appalling- he should be severely disciplined if not struck off. ???

Thanks for copying the article Baggs.

I don't want to scare anyone, but I know of at least 1 person who was quickly confirmed as dead by an elderly doctor in a hurry, and the person woke up on the table at the undertaker's.

The whole thing was hushed as the doctor and person's OH belonged to the special secret society with the handshakes!

Agreed. If the GP could not do it, for any reason- She/he should have made alternative arrangements.

You can't certify someone's death by phone, as apart from pulse and breathing, which can be VERY low in a very elderly sick person, you have to look into the eyes with a flash light.

This could set a very dangerous precedent. Could the Dr tell if I’d held a pillow over someone’s face.
I realise that the chances of this happening are very slim,but, Dr Shipman springs to mind.

The GP's situation is irrelevant, Baggs. The job is to confirm, and if appropriate, certify the death. It has to be done in person and common humanity alone demands that it should be so. If the doctor on call can't do it, s/he should get someone else who is qualified to do it.

Where is the "sensitive and compassionate manner" about this appalling way to treat people?

But we don't know the GP's situation.

Here you are V. MrB has a subscription:

An elderly widow was forced to certify her husband’s death via video call after a GP said they “don’t come out any more”.

The patient, who was 80 and had been dying from cancer, passed away at home shortly after 4pm on a weekday earlier this month. His wife, who had been caring for him at home, called her local GP and was told the doctor would “be in touch shortly”.

But when the GP phoned back, more than one and a half hours later, he said he would not be coming to the house.

Moira Evans, a friend of the widow who was there at the time and has spoken to The Telegraph, said: “He then sent a link to a video chat… [and said] ‘hold the camera to the dead body’. My friend at this point said ‘I can’t, can you do it please Moira?’, and so I did it.”

The GP explained that “they don’t come out any more to certify death, that you have to do it yourself on a smartphone”, she said.

‘Verification should be carried out in person’

Temporary measures for completing medical certificates of cause of death during the Covid pandemic were lifted in March this year.

The current official requirements, set by HM Passport Office, state: “Seeing the deceased after death (ie viewing the body) will need to be in person and includes verifying the death.”

An NHS spokesman said: “Verification of death should be carried out in person by a qualified health professional in a sensitive and compassionate manner.”

Good that a friend could help with that.

I do not find it shocking, given the state of the NHS shortage of personnel.

I also think that if someone has been dying for a while and their death is expected at home, it's a relatively simple thing to record by a family member or friend, especially with the video call from the GP. People have 'recognised' death for millenia. The NHS has removed a lot of what was normal and 'protected us' from it even when that was not necessary.

Before the pandemic, I was reading things about people wanting to die at home rather than impersonally in hospital. What is reported in the Telegraph therefore seems like a natural progression.

Anybody actually have the article to show us? Anybody actually got the details?

Or shall we all just jump to conclusions and blame the GPs?

Oh was in hospital for blood tests , but very poorly with Parkinson’s , we visited at visiting time in the evening
Eldest took one look at him and pulled the curtains , I called a Nurse , she was so kind , he was still able to squeeze my hand
The nurse kept popping in to see how we were and only came in when he drew his last breath,
I don’t know how anyone could ask a bereaved person to video a loved one at that time
I relive those moments every night and bless the kind Nurse