GP Confirmed Death at Home by Videocall

Thank you, deedaa. What you did, what you recognised without any professional help, is what ordinary people have been doing for millennia. I think it's important not to forget that

I'm not saying the article is untrue, but you should take the paper's bias into account.

Taking the ridiculousness of the story and the lack of corroboration of its pertinent points by trusted sources is exactly what some posters on this thread – including but not only me – have been doing. Sometimes it feels as if one's talking to the wall on GN ?

When my mother died unexpectedly at my house I was certain she was dead straightaway. the ambulance came and they spent a few minutes trying to resuscitate her and then phoned the coroner for me. The coroner took all the details and organised the undertaker for me.

When DH died in hospital we all knew it was imminent and I knew the instant he'd gone. I sat with him for a while before ringing the bell. A doctor came in and asked if I wanted to leave while he confirmed the death. I said no because I wanted to see what he did. He listened to his chest, shone a light in his eyes and shouted in his ear. Not much more advanced than me really.

I don't know if you noticed this is in the Torygraph. They are just as keen as the government to attack GPs and destroy the NHS.

I'm not saying the article is untrue, but you should take the paper's bias into account.

eazybee

We have a few paragraphs in the Telegraph and I can't see that the story has been picked up by any other media outlet, so the only source is the house journal of the political party that wants to privatise the NHS. And now many people here are saying how the NHS isn't fit for purpose.

I don't know if its contempt or not, but I expect people to understand the whole story before they start asking for doctors to be struck off. And no, I don't have much respect for people who read what's in the Telegraph, are gullible enough to believe it as gospel and then embellish it with their own prejudices.

My comment is aimed at this.

Perhaps you should learn how to use the ^ marks then. Then we might know who what you were talking about.

eazybee

We have a few paragraphs in the Telegraph and I can't see that the story has been picked up by any other media outlet, so the only source is the house journal of the political party that wants to privatise the NHS. And now many people here are saying how the NHS isn't fit for purpose.

I don't know if its contempt or not, but I expect people to understand the whole story before they start asking for doctors to be struck off. And no, I don't have much respect for people who read what's in the Telegraph, are gullible enough to believe it as gospel and then embellish it with their own prejudices.

My comment is aimed at this.

And I agree with all that entirely, which makes me think you might have misunderstood my comments.

The Coronavirus Act of 2020 made changes to the processes of verification and certification of death, particularly outside of medical settings. This is understandable and pragmatic.
The link to the flow chart from the Royal College of General Practitioners illustrates the process but states quite clearly

"GP establishes that person in attendance is content and feels comfortable to assist the VoED process via video consultation. People should not feel coerced to assist the process"
(VoED = verification of expected death)

Whatever the truth of the story that this thread relates to, there appears to have been a failure on the part of the GP in ensuring the deceased man's widow was comfortable in assisting with the process of verification and should have offered an alternative.
Compassion and kindness (or the lack of) around major life events such as bereavement are remembered forever and can impact hugely on how people move forward in their journey through grief. I'll never forget the nurse who sat with my Mum shortly after her death so she wouldn't be left alone, allowing me to make a call to my husband from a quiet room. It was at early shift handover and she will have had a hundred things to do but her perception of my need was something very special.

We have a few paragraphs in the Telegraph and I can't see that the story has been picked up by any other media outlet, so the only source is the house journal of the political party that wants to privatise the NHS. And now many people here are saying how the NHS isn't fit for purpose.

I don't know if its contempt or not, but I expect people to understand the whole story before they start asking for doctors to be struck off. And no, I don't have much respect for people who read what's in the Telegraph, are gullible enough to believe it as gospel and then embellish it with their own prejudices.

My comment is aimed at this.

I may not have sugar-coated what I've said, eazy, but nothing I've said is impolite.

Being able to cope with a sensible old adage or two is a good life skill, I reckon.

And rather more politeness from some of the posters would not go amiss either.

Not sure where PPE & stethoscopes come into it. Neither were mentioned.

By which I mean who's making assumtions now?

Grandma70s

There isn’t a camera on my phone, I don’t have appropriate PPE, and I certainly don’t have a stethoscope. Too many assumptions.

Another puzzling thing. I doubt GPs to elderly people make any of those assumptions. Not sure where PPE & stethoscopes come into it. Neither were mentioned.

What's that old adage: "Don't believe everything you read in the papers."

Bit more scepticism about the story would not go amiss, gransnetters.

There isn’t a camera on my phone, I don’t have appropriate PPE, and I certainly don’t have a stethoscope. Too many assumptions.

Ash cash is for cremation forms they probably get one of those inked stamps with their signatures on

Rude. My dd sometimes has to fill out and sign forms for cremation, particularly when working on Medicine for the Elderly units. She takes her job very seriously. The fees are not paid automatically, either. They have to be claimed from the undertakers, which involves time and effort.

Volver I am sorry to learn that your mother has passed away.

Grandmattie, I am sorry to hear about your Dh, too.

Callistemon21

Fleurpepper

I don't want to scare anyone, but I know of at least 1 person who was quickly confirmed as dead by an elderly doctor in a hurry, and the person woke up on the table at the undertaker's.

The whole thing was hushed as the doctor and person's OH belonged to the special secret society with the handshakes!

This is what terrifies me
One similar case received quite a lot of publicity a few years ago.

If someone dies at home does there have to be a post mortem or is that no longer the case?

I think a post mortem can be requested if there is nothing in the deceased’s medical history to suggest they were likely to die soon, or if they hadn’t seen a doctor for a period of time.
The Bodach was very low over the Christmas period, and our GP left a ‘ Certificate of Expected Death’ which he had signed, and a box with morphine injections and some other things ( I think)so that a nurse or paramedic could certify death if it happened over the holiday.
As it was, he died in hospital.

If you want to take your anger out on anyone take it out on a government which has underfunded the NHS to such an extent that it may never recover. Then realise that this is a political decision in order to progress privatisation. GPs are leaving the profession faster than ever before.
The GP service is an incredible service that should be funded and protected but it isn't.
If you want to know what life might be like in a privatised system like the US I advise you to read "Unsheltered" by Barbara Kingsolver. While reading it you might realise how many services we take for granted and what happens to the old and chronically sick in a private health system. It is shocking.

MerylStreep

This could set a very dangerous precedent. Could the Dr tell if I’d held a pillow over someone’s face.
I realise that the chances of this happening are very slim,but, Dr Shipman springs to mind.

Well said MerylStreep.
A relative who was a Dr. has just said the same, if I had had a disagreement with DH I could easily bump him off with a bash on the back of the head send in a photo and who would know?
Especially on a Sunday afternoon when he is comatosed with a few glasses of red wine, and they have a smaller team.
Ash cash is for cremation forms they probably get one of those inked stamps with their signatures on.
On a more serious note, I had to sit for four hours with a neighbour whose husband died at home. He was sitting in a chair opposite us and we waited until their next of kin got there and all the medical services. The crash team leader actually joked and said"Nice way to go sitting in your favourite chair. No one laughed.

We can't know that the Tele has told the whole story or just gone off on a "bloody useless NHS" rant.

It definitely looks to me like a badly cobbled together story if only because of bringing in the passport office. What on earth is the passport office's role in immediate death certification?

And they want more money.

Apologies for getting into the spirit of debate with crossed time posts volver and sincere condolences for your loss

Well here's one indignant old lady - huffing or not - who will not accept the death of a major tenet of the NHS as being ok.

The dilution of GP services - unable to get appointments, constant, constant referrals by GPs to "go to A&E, this is not something we deal with", the "Oh God no! - pearl clutching optional- we just don't DO home visits, sooooo last century!" etc, etc ad nauseum - until everybody just shrugs, accepts and says that's how it is now et voila!...every principle the NHS was set up for slowly, stealthily completely eradicated.

Not good enough.

Posters are calling for doctorse to be struck off, saying how much better things were in the olden days, etc etc. We have a few paragraphs in the Telegraph and I can't see that the story has been picked up by any other media outlet, so the only source is the house journal of the political party that wants to privatise the NHS. And now many people here are saying how the NHS isn't fit for purpose.

I don't know if its contempt or not, but I expect people to understand the whole story before they start asking for doctors to be struck off. And no, I don't have much respect for people who read what's in the Telegraph, are gullible enough to believe it as gospel and then embellish it with their own prejudices.

Thank you to everybody who has spoken about my bereavement. I won't be posting on this thread again.

volver

Glad my post about my dead mum made you laugh Maw.

Thanks JaneJudge

Indignant old ladies huffing about how the NHS isn't doing its job are just expecting too much, really

Of course it didn’t. Sincere sympathy.
But this (above) was classic pot and kettle.

Baggs

*The current official requirements, set by HM Passport Office*

This puzzles me. What has the Passport Office got to do with it?

Yes, I was puzzled too.

Indignant old ladies huffing about how the NHS isn't doing its job are just expecting too much, really

Perhaps we're just expecting a pre-pandemic service eg actual face-to-face appointments with a GP. A GP who cannot attend a death at home to send another medical professional to certify the death and not expect a distressed, bereaved relative to video the dead body.

I'm sorry about your DH, grandmattie and to hear about your mother too volver.

The GP service does seem to be very patchy now.

When all else fails, there’s nothing to beat a good old sexist, ageist put-down.