Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

Actually
From Middle English derelyng, from Old English dēorling (“darling, favorite, minion; also household god”), corresponding to dear +‎ -ling.

Excellent posts Doodledog.

Are you making class assumptions about me?

JaneJudge

I do think darling in the English language is a more feminine calling for a woman and I've never heard a man be called darling but I do not know the percentage difference of feminine v masculine interpretation of the word as I'm not a linguist. I would hazard a guess less than 30% of people on here ever use it to address men.

Maybe watch Strictly -lots of darlinging from Craig. Or meet some theatre people. Men call men it, women call men it, women call women it, men call women it. In fact it can be used for anyone. Sorry if my experience is different to yours. I apologise unreservedly and promise not to call you darling again.

Thanks for the explanation of intersectional feminism Doodledog
Intersectional feminism centres the voices of those experiencing overlapping, concurrent forms of oppression in order to understand the depths of the inequalities and the relationships among them in any given context. (source UNwomen.org)
Now what you need to get your head around is that intersectional feminists believe transwomen are women. That they are subjected to the same oppression women are and have additional levels of oppression to natal women. Just as black women have suffered different levels of oppression to white women and working class women have suffered different levels of oppression to more privileged women. Because oppression seldom inspects your genitalia and generally depends upon the gendered persona you present to the public. Perhaps if you could appreciate that you could use the proper term for us which you still seem to be misconstruing.

Sorry to everyone who thinks I am adopting a patronising tone, but honestly if you want to have a discussion with someone and question their views at least have the decency to research a bit first.
I have looked at gender critical feminists and find most of their beliefs unacceptable and their reliance on constantly posting about attacks on women by deviant people who may or may not be trans unacceptable. And their assertion that transmen are, and must remain, women at odds with feminism, which should at the very least permit any woman to reject the gender label.

It was originally dearling. Applied to small children.

So patronising in its origins as well as now.

I do think darling in the English language is a more feminine calling for a woman and I've never heard a man be called darling but I do not know the percentage difference of feminine v masculine interpretation of the word as I'm not a linguist. I would hazard a guess less than 30% of people on here ever use it to address men.

as of April 2022, a third of court judges and half tribunal judges were women. In the higher courts the proportion remains lower - about 30 %
That means two thirds in one sector were men, half in another sector and almost three quarters in the higher courts. Which I think however you try to explain it means there are more men judges As I said.
Of course women are good judges of course they do excellent work. But there are still more men. Why would you question that? It isn't sneering to point out a fact There are more men judges than women therefore it is entirely possible (and more likely) that a poster using the name Judge could be male. I know she probably isn't because men on GN don't last long. But I was called misogynistic I was just pointing out why it wasn't reasonable to assume that. Nothing sneering about it.

Doodledog’s post at 16.29 - wish we had a like button. I particularly appreciate the third paragraph because I share the view that there is such a huge gap between posters on trans issues as is suggested by some here.

We women fought hard for the rights we have and will fight to keep them.
As JaneJudge says wanting laws on safeguarding protected isn’t anti anyone, it’s pro protecting people/children who are vulnerable

By the way Gloryanny - another unnecessary unpleasant response to Jane. I don’t understand why you assume JJ Is a Judge, or why that assumption enables yiu to add further offence towards her. As a matter of interest, as of April 2022, a third of court judges and half tribunal judges were women. In the higher courts the proportion remains lower - about 30 %
These good women, contributing so much to society - the majority of them balancing work with caring responsibilities. I don’t understand why you’d sneer

JaneJudge

No one wants to wish any ill on anyone but laws need to be protected so they don't impinge on safe guarding. It is sensible and pragmatic.

Agreed. And I'd like to add that laws have to be straightforward and applicable to all. Allowing one group to do something another group can't, based on the 'feelings' of the first group. For one thing, laws have to be seen to be fairly applied, and for another a 'loophole' like that is asking for the ill-intentioned to drive a coach and horses straight through it.

No one wants to wish any ill on anyone but laws need to be protected so they don't impinge on safe guarding. It is sensible and pragmatic.

Glorianny, if you could even try to be less patronising your posts might be marginally less irritating.

'Intersectional feminism' is about far more than trans rights issues, so using that term would not work - not because I 'won't' use it, or because I am 'pretending' anything, or because I am 'unable to remember', and certainly not because of 'deep discrimination' but because it doesn't fit. I really don't need to 'examine my failure' - I wonder who the @$ you think you are at times.

Intersectional feminism centres the voices of those experiencing overlapping, concurrent forms of oppression in order to understand the depths of the inequalities and the relationships among them in any given context. (source UNwomen.org)

There is nothing in there about centring the needs of men over those of women, and including transwomen under the 'feminist' umbrella only works if you believe that TWAW, which is, of course the problem. You do, and I don't.

You can virtue signal as much as you like about the things you fight for - that's not my style, but as VS would say 'you do you'.

I have said this before, but I don't think there is as huge a gap between what we think as might appear. I do not believe that TWAW, and do not think that they should be able to invade women's spaces, sports teams or take away the language we use to describe ourselves, but I do believe in trying to find ways to accommodate everyone in society and in equality for all, and that absolutely includes transpeople. I don't however, think that 'you sort it out' is a reasonable response to hear every time a problem is raised. Transwomen are men, and it should be men who sort out how to make things better for them. The threat to both women and men is men, and the same applies. For too long women have been told to find ways of protecting themselves against male attack - whether by dressing more 'modestly', by getting home early via well-lit routes, by having a chaperone at all times and more. Being told that now we need to find ways to avoid attack from men who can legally claim that they can go anywhere we can go if they say they are women is several steps too far. Then being told that we should come up with solutions, but that whatever they are they shouldn't hurt the feelings of men, or inconvenience the ones who want to play no part in this (ie the ones who are not trans but don't want to give up any of their spaces to transwomen either), and that if we can't, we have to just suck it up is very far from any idea of feminism that I have ever encountered.

I do not wish transwomen (or men) ill. I am not phobic about them. I am not discriminatory, however you mangle the word, but I do believe that women need to hang on to our rights, as they were hard won, and there are too many people just itching to take them away.

Sighm most.

Doodledog

*Calling or labelling us as transactivists because we support equality is discrimination.*

Glorianny I have repeatedly asked for another term to use, as you have said you don’t like ‘transactivists’ - or was that trisher? I can’t be sure.

Either way, I don’t want to use a term that would include those of us who are also supportive of transpeople but don’t believe that TWAW, which rules out ‘trans supporter’ as a way of describing you. None was forthcoming (perhaps because choosing one would recognise that the people you insinuate are anti-equality are actually noting of the kind?), so I tend to use ‘transallies’, but I think it’s VS who doesn’t like that either. What are we to do?

It strikes me that the only real difference between the factions on here is that some believe in both a form of transubstantiation that can alter gametes and make men into women at will, and that ‘gender’ roles are somehow fixed, so that someone preferring to follow the societally determined roles of the other sex has no choice but to ‘become’ that sex to do so. Others, like me, believe that sex is immutable and that as gender roles are societally determined they can be changed or ignored, and that this would be the best way forward (particularly for children), but nevertheless if a man wants to wear a dress there is no reason why he shouldn’t, so long as he realises that he is still a man, and doesn’t impose himself into women’s spaces.

All the bluster about transallies being ‘forward thinking’ or ‘kind’ or ‘more concerned about equality’ is just that, and allegations of racism and homophobia are ridiculous. The GC ways of thinking are kind, forward thinking and interested in equality too - we just approach the topic in a way that forwards women instead of transwomen, as (a) we are women, and (b) we recognise that after millennia of real discrimination and subjugation which would resurface in a heartbeat if we let it, we do not want to sleepwalk into a situation that our grand-daughters will rightly resent us for allowing to happen.

Doodledog you and others have been told many times that those of us who believe transwomen are women are intersectional feminists. The fact that you will not use the term, pretend it has never been posted, so insist we have to be termed transactivists because of our beliefs, just shows how deep the discrimination goes with those who insist they are gender critical feminists. It seems that they are either unable to remember the term or perhaps that they choose not to use it because doing so would mean they acknowledged our feminism. Whatever the reason you should examine your failure to recognise and use the correct term for us carefully.

For the record. I really don't know if people can or will be able to change sex now or in the future. I accept the legal situation that in certain situations if women will not use a service transwomen even with a gender recognition certificate can be banned from it. I accept gender as the identity people are socially recognised as. That this is something which for some people conflicts with the body they were born with. That there are a number of ways such people can present. That society should accommodate and cater for such people in a way that keeps everyone safe. And that transwomen who present as women and identify as women have many of the same problems as women, which may differ from my problems because as a white intersectional feminist I recognise that my life has had some privileges which other women have not experienced. So just as I will fight for young pregnant women to be better protected by the legal system I will fight for transwomen to have equality.
We are intersectional feminists. Try to remember that.

Bah! All not modt

Most people with a penis, testicles, male gametes, a beard and moustache are men, too.

JaneJudge

calling me darling is misogynistic

JaneJudge for the "darling" to be misogynistic you have to assume two things. Firstly that I am absolutely certain you are a woman (I'm not because most judges are men) and secondly that I wouldn't use the same term to a man, which I certainly would if I felt like it.
So perhaps we can put that accusation to bed.

Calling or labelling us as transactivists because we support equality is discrimination.

Glorianny I have repeatedly asked for another term to use, as you have said you don’t like ‘transactivists’ - or was that trisher? I can’t be sure.

Either way, I don’t want to use a term that would include those of us who are also supportive of transpeople but don’t believe that TWAW, which rules out ‘trans supporter’ as a way of describing you. None was forthcoming (perhaps because choosing one would recognise that the people you insinuate are anti-equality are actually noting of the kind?), so I tend to use ‘transallies’, but I think it’s VS who doesn’t like that either. What are we to do?

It strikes me that the only real difference between the factions on here is that some believe in both a form of transubstantiation that can alter gametes and make men into women at will, and that ‘gender’ roles are somehow fixed, so that someone preferring to follow the societally determined roles of the other sex has no choice but to ‘become’ that sex to do so. Others, like me, believe that sex is immutable and that as gender roles are societally determined they can be changed or ignored, and that this would be the best way forward (particularly for children), but nevertheless if a man wants to wear a dress there is no reason why he shouldn’t, so long as he realises that he is still a man, and doesn’t impose himself into women’s spaces.

All the bluster about transallies being ‘forward thinking’ or ‘kind’ or ‘more concerned about equality’ is just that, and allegations of racism and homophobia are ridiculous. The GC ways of thinking are kind, forward thinking and interested in equality too - we just approach the topic in a way that forwards women instead of transwomen, as (a) we are women, and (b) we recognise that after millennia of real discrimination and subjugation which would resurface in a heartbeat if we let it, we do not want to sleepwalk into a situation that our grand-daughters will rightly resent us for allowing to happen.

Discrimination maybe Iam because Jane disagrees.

That could also be applied to labelling people feminists, intersectional feminists, gender critical feminists etc.

And patronising Jane.

That was an unnecessary and very unpleasant attack on JaneJudge, Gloriannie
Why would one feminist sink to patronising another by using the demeaning darling.

God I am sorry Jane that along with everything else you have to justify your concerns for your daughter.

Glorianny

Actually I think those of us who believe transwomen are women are being discriminated against as well
Discrimination by association
^Discrimination by association occurs when a person
is treated less favourably because they are linked
or associated with a protected characteristic.The
person does not have the protected characteristic
but they are treated less favourably than others
because of a protected characteristic of a friend,
spouse, partner, parent or another person with
whom they are associated.^
Calling or labelling us as transactivists because we support equality is discrimination.

Hmm would that be like labelling people who acknowledge the science that it is impossible to change sex transphobic or terfs? We support equality too. The equality of women's right to have our sex respected.

I can certainly understand your concerns, jane.

Different things impact people differently.

I read that it seems not to be a big deal for someone to open the door of a hospital room and quickly leave.

That had an impact on my daughter, due to the circumstances.

It wasn't to do with the sex or gender of the many people who did it, it was the fact that they did it constantly.