Bonkers new rule at our GP surgery

Are there locum doctors who would cover weekends?

Surely, there must be?

Nowadays, it is 100% who opt out- putting huge pressure on ambulance services and Emergency services, and requiring lots of other doctors to cover thos hours separately.

Ever since 2004

GPs plan to 'opt out' of night duty

MORE than eight out of 10 GPs are planning to opt out of providing care for patients outside surgery hours, according to a survey. Eighty-three per cent of GPs say they will ditch night and weekend cover when a new contract is introduced in April.

You just don't get what I am saying. I am with you all the way- it was barbaric and dangerous. And it was right through the 70s and 80s and 90s, until new contracts were put in place which allowed GPs to opt out of night and weekends.

What I am saying, is that ever since that new contract- we have had a massive shortage of GPs. Even beyond those dates, calculations were made on full time GPs, working much longer hours. Of course it was dangerous for all concerned. If you got to Casualty at 3am, when the Junior doctor on calle was on his 130+ hrs- he or she was like a zombie! Agreed 100%.

I remember nights on call at home with 3, 4, 5 calls, often a long way away- no-ong got any sleep, and in the morning, the GP got up and went to work, for a full 10+ day. Sheer madness.

But, if GPs now do not cover nights and week-ends, work much shorter hours, see fewer patients- and on top of that- go part-time, the knock on effect on shortages is huge.

Not having a GP, or getting an ambulance or a bed, is not very safe, at all.

It does appear that patients are using a variety of methods to get in touch with their GP or practice. Some patients appear to get satisfaction from the way their surgery operates and others less so. I’m at a loss myself to understand why the NHS App isn’t available and able to deliver for all patients as it does for me.

Fleurpepper you were obviously married to a GP. Do you really think the way your husband worked was better for his patients, himself, his wife or his children? Why do you want to go backwards?

Fleurpepper I don’t disbelieve you, but when did this happen? Not for donkeys years, because it’s no longer possible. There are far more patients, more complex treatments, and too few doctors. I’m pleased to hear that you approve of doctors working extremely long hours and doing night visits (not sure what 111 is for in that case, but never mind that) but for myself, I would prefer a doctor who is fresh from a good nights sleep. I don’t want to go backwards in the health service, I want to move forward to a better and more efficient health service, not back to one grounded in the 1950s.
Why did you think laws were passed to make junior doctors not able to work such long hours? I’ll tell you, it’s because rested doctors don’t make mistakes in the way that tired doctors do. I think that’s progress, obviously you don’t.

MissAdventure

I don't believe gps have a moral obligation to work themselves into the ground.

If times have changed, and both gps and patients (some) are finding things are no longer workable, then a solution needs to be found.

Since I'm pretty sure we all want the same results, that's at least a starting point.

Oh I could not agree more. But it was the way it was, not that long ago. And projection figures were based on GPs working much longer hours, and full time. Hence the massive shortage.

I would certainly not advocate a return to this dangerous madness, dangerous for all! We as a couple and later as a family lived it, day in, night out- it nearly killed my OH twice, and he harldy saw his kids grow up. It also tied me at home, night and day, answering the phone and dealing with emergencies (wihtout any qualifications whatsoever) - as GP in those days could not operate without a partner or spouse prepared to do this.

But the shortages we have now are partly due to this.

MissAdventure

I don't believe gps have a moral obligation to work themselves into the ground.

If times have changed, and both gps and patients (some) are finding things are no longer workable, then a solution needs to be found.

Since I'm pretty sure we all want the same results, that's at least a starting point.

Good post MissA.

It sounds like something local to your area.

Which system was that? It's not the one which my GP uses, which has never had hospital appointments.

I used to get upcoming hospital appointments showing, then they would disappear once I'd been.

They also had a date, by which time, if I hadn't heard, I could phone the dept. (And leave 55 messages, hoping to hear back!)

Dandylion

I think they model themselves on Dickens' Circumlocution Office.... round and round getting nowhere... I had a letter from our Surgery to book a Hypertension review... Went to desk with letter. 'Can you prove your address?' I was asked. - Showed letter from them to me at my address with request to come in. No, they said - it has to be a bill for gas, electricity or rates! 'But here I am standing in front of you so I must have received your letter at where I live' I said. They wouldn't accept it. So I left feeling like a non-person, with my Hypertension at top rate and without the review!

Are you not signed up for Patient Access with your GP? Apart from when I first signed up for it, I have never once been asked for proof of my address.

MaddyOne, in case you were directing your comments to me, I was not, and have never been a 'GP basher'. I was merely reporting on a new rather weird system of trying to book an appointment, and if you read my posts you will understand that.

MissAdventure

The info on the app is supplied by each gp practice individually, I think.

There is no option on my app to book appointments, and it no longer shows any upcoming hospital appointments, which it used to.

I don't think it is supplied by the GP.

My NHS app has details of my Covid jabs, but my GP app doesn't.

I haven't been able to book appointments directly with either system since the start of Covid. I have to use another app, which brings up an online form to connect me to the triage system. The GP then replies to my message with an appointment, which appears in the GP app.

I've never had hospital appointments on the NHS or GP app. They appear on yet another app, called "My Chart", which is the online system for Addenbrooke's Hospital. Bizarrely, blood test results (even those done by the GP) appear on the Addenbrooke's app, but not the GP or NHS app.

maddyone

Fleurpepper
It’s donkeys years since GPs did overnight and weekend surgeries, or went out to visit patients in their own homes. How do you know their hours were much longer then than today? Have you got any proof of that? And how do you think that GPs could manage to home visit patients when there are so many more patients to oversee now? Have you actually read the thread?

I can assure you, I know. The night and week-ends were always on top of a full week. So 11 to 12 hours a day PLUS 1 night in 3 or 4, and 1 week-end in 2 or 4, + all th admin, insurance reports, monitoring of younger doctors, and more. What was a 4.5 wo/man practice, with the same list, is now 11.

As for Junior Doctors, do you think it would be allowed for the to work 140 to 145 hrs per week as they did in the 70s!?

Good post MissA.
Surely (in time) “things can only get better”? 🎵 🎶

I don't believe gps have a moral obligation to work themselves into the ground.

If times have changed, and both gps and patients (some) are finding things are no longer workable, then a solution needs to be found.

Since I'm pretty sure we all want the same results, that's at least a starting point.

NanKate
That suggests they want you to use the online facility then.

Fleurpepper
It’s donkeys years since GPs did overnight and weekend surgeries, or went out to visit patients in their own homes. How do you know their hours were much longer then than today? Have you got any proof of that? And how do you think that GPs could manage to home visit patients when there are so many more patients to oversee now? Have you actually read the thread?

Our doctors have sealed up their letter box. 😡

MissAdventure

What happens when a teacher goes part time?

Its ridiculous to suggest the gps shouldn't be allowed autonomy over their own work/life balance.

Well yes, but there are consequences. The Government has calculated the number of GPs currently required based on them working full time. Not that long ago, that meant working 1 night in 3 or 4 on call, and 1 week-end in 3 or 4, doing home visits, etc, ON TOP of their normal working hours, which were much longer than today.

Now GPs don't work nights or week-ends- and do much shorter hours, and then this part-time. The results- a massive shortage. The reality.

Dandylion
What a strange situation! I wonder why they wanted a bill when they already sent the letter to you at your address. My practice text me if they want me to make an appointment ie flu vaccine, and I can make the appointment on the NHS App.

Sparklygrandma I think you’ll find most doctors complete ten years or more very easily in the NHS already, so such a rule wouldn’t really help. I don’t agree with such a rule anyway, because student doctors pay university tuition fees exactly the same as other students. That means they pay £9000 a year for th3 first four years of their training, so it’s not the situation that the NHS trains them entirely. They then move into clinical practice for one or two years where they are working for no pay in the NHS.

My daughter, after spending three years attending lectures and hospital clinics, did:

A further three years clinical practice whilst training. She was not paid for this work and in fact one year we paid the university even though she was engaged in clinical practice.

She then did F1 and F2 (two years) working in a hospital on different rotations. She was paid for this because she was qualified.

She then worked for one year at the Psychiatric Hospital. She was paid.

She then worked at a variety of GP practices for three years as a trainee GP. She was paid.

This makes a total of nine years as you can see. She then went on to work for several years as a GP before going to work in New Zealand. As you can see, doctors will easily clock up ten years without any such ruling, but unfortunately people don’t actually understand the process and therefore think they can offer a solution, which actually isn’t a solution at all.

I think they model themselves on Dickens' Circumlocution Office.... round and round getting nowhere... I had a letter from our Surgery to book a Hypertension review... Went to desk with letter. 'Can you prove your address?' I was asked. - Showed letter from them to me at my address with request to come in. No, they said - it has to be a bill for gas, electricity or rates! 'But here I am standing in front of you so I must have received your letter at where I live' I said. They wouldn't accept it. So I left feeling like a non-person, with my Hypertension at top rate and without the review!