Very very moving, from Sarah (assisted dying)

Fleurpepper

Another natural escape used to be pneumonia, or cardiac arrest. Unless DNR is in place before the disease takes hold, then choice is taken away, especially if spouse/next of kin insists the person has to be force fed, one way or another and given antibiotics.

DNR is solely an instruction to not attempt to resuscitate, i.e. after the heart has stopped. It does not have any influence on treatment prior to death. The patient would need to write a witnessed Advanced Decision (Living Will) making their choices plain. Alternatively, a Lasting Power of Attorney would give a relative or other trusted nominee the right to make health decisions. Sorry if that sounds a bit know-all, it’s not meant to. I went through all this with my Mum so have experience.

Wyllow3

I recall when I was working for SSD there was a great deal of controversy as angry relatives of a few people in a care home demanded of the Doctor that they be force fed. When they were making a quiet and natural choice to "go" in their own way, and their conditions gave no hope of a reasonable life..

In my mother’s care home (generally very good) I more than once saw people (albeit with the best of intentions) being badgered and pestered to eat, when they so clearly didn’t want to - crying and whimpering and turning their heads away.

I made up my mind that if the situation arose with my mother, I would allow no such thing. Luckily it never did, but I’m sure the care home staff would have agreed with me that by that stage (over 90 and with already quite advanced dementia) any ‘striving to keep alive’ would not be in her best interests. To me, in fact, it can verge on abuse, if not actual cruelty.

From all I’ve ever gathered, though, a lot of the pressure to ‘strive’ does come from relatives.

Another natural escape used to be pneumonia, or cardiac arrest. Unless DNR is in place before the disease takes hold, then choice is taken away, especially if spouse/next of kin insists the person has to be force fed, one way or another and given antibiotics.

My Father was given an end of life injection, at home by a nurse who knew the situation.
He was asked if he was 'ready' he said yes.
Watching him go through the previous 3 months was harrowing for us.
But he had control and made as many decisions about his health care as the system allowed.
I would not want a new system put in place that had any chance of being abused.

If anyone wants to see how good intentions in this field can be co opted, read some of the problems Canada has with it.
Be aware of the facts, not just the feelings.

People in Scotland at least know that loved ones will not fear arrest or interrogation, or any pugnitive measures. Not so for England or Wales.

Wyllow3

I recall when I was working for SSD there was a great deal of controversy as angry relatives of a few people in a care home demanded of the Doctor that they be force fed. When they were making a quiet and natural choice to "go" in their own way, and their conditions gave no hope of a reasonable life..

I remember seeing my ex-husband's grandmother kept in this state, with intravenous feeding every time she stopped eating. She suffered for ten years unable to speak, walk, look after herself after a life changing stroke, but wasn't allowed to escape.

Aldom

Fleurpepper just to be clear. Alzheimers disease is a form of dementia. It is the most common form of dementia.

Yes, it is. Both forms lead to exactly the same indignities and loss of control and end of life choices.

It is extremely moving and I agree with every word said. This paragraph in particular I feel is important:

'That’s why PCW has teamed up with another community action group, the People’s Health Alliance, to create new blueprints for health and social care. For example, social enterprise care homes would mean profits stay within the community, ensuring care workers are paid well and standards kept high. The “shareholders” would be the village or town or district – putting care back into the heart and hands of communities.'

The government so often seems to blame others (the homeless, refugees, carers, nurses et al) for problems in our society. Respect and pay them a decent salary, and change the law on assisted dying to make things better.

I completely agree with Fleurpepper's posts; I fear ending up with no power or means to end my life without putting my friends and family in a position of risking arrest and imprisonment.

I recall when I was working for SSD there was a great deal of controversy as angry relatives of a few people in a care home demanded of the Doctor that they be force fed. When they were making a quiet and natural choice to "go" in their own way, and their conditions gave no hope of a reasonable life..

Fleurpepper just to be clear. Alzheimers disease is a form of dementia. It is the most common form of dementia.

Forcing people to travel abroad, as was the case with her terminally ill husband is so cruel. The organisation and physical and emotional strength required is massive. It requires going too early so its not too late, And also adds huge stress as in England and Wales, the loved one or ones, helping with the organisation and accompanyin the person who wants an assisted death, knows s/he/they could face interrogation by police on their return and possible prosecution. So cruel and unfair.

Her comment as she posted the above 'Personally I DO NOT want to be warehoused.......I want a civilised death at MY time of choosing when I cannot look after myself and am probably in pain or have an illness I won't get better from. Is that really an inappropriate request? I DO NOT want to be at the mercy of others who may not actually care about me - and why should they when they are paid a pittance for wiping my bottom et al. To be ALIVE has to be worth it surely? '

I agree 100% with her. If people make the clear choice, checked over to ensure that the person is fully compos mentis, and that there is NO outside pressure or coercion- then people should be allowed to make that choice.

The difficulty is with dementia or Alzheimer's, where the choice has to be made early, too early. But for me, and Sarah, going too early would be far far better than the alternative, of having to live for far too long, with no quality of life and all the awful indignities related to the disease. OH totally agrees, and our ACs also understand now- having witnessed the alternative far too often, and the devastation it causes. And for what- sort of physical survival of sorts? The sort of thing we would never impose on our beloved pets, who are allowed a peaceful departure, when the time has come. In our case, always in their own home.

Sarah posted this today, from the Guardian. We both feel the same about it. Who wants this? What is the point?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/27/social-care-britain-business-plan-elderly-mistreated-homes-profit