Misuse of emergency ambulances

Thank you Fleurpepper. I have just updated on my Is anyone awake? Thread. Not great this morning.

Sorry to hear Cabbie21- and hope for a good outcome. How is he doing?

And yes, it is a COMBINATION - a broken system, combined with far too many people who call ambulances for all the wrong reasons. Ambulance and A&E staff could each write a book of all the nonsense they have seen and experienced, and previous generation who used to do night calls too.

Its too easy to blame the “idiot” public, when most people are nothing of the sort, and when the real problem is health and social services neglected by the government for the last 12 years

I can just about understand why a government would do this in order to avoid facing up to what is staring them in the face (crisis? what crisis?), but I do get exasperated when members of the public who are the ones likely to have their lives endangered by this, somehow manage to excuse the government by blaming the patients. I prefer to listen to the experts, those who are there in the front line, those working in A&E, rather than a lot of urban myths about ambulances being cluttered up with drunks and people with broken arms who are unable to get on a bus.

I know someone, a relative of one of my dil's who repeatedly calls for an ambulance. We are talking at least once a week. They were eventually told that if it continued then they would be charged for the call out and potentially black listed. Not once was an ambulance actually required. The person in question does have health problems (not life threatening) but refuses to take the medication provided. My dil who is a nurse is beside herself. As the relative is elderly, lives alone but will not listen to reason.
I am not sure if the NHS can charge or black list anyone. However in cases like this something needs to be done.
Incidentally the person in question is of sound mind.

I have nothing but prAise for the ambulance service - paramedics and first responders. It is the system that is broken and unfit for the current situation where people cannot get GP appointments, mental health services cannot cope, and hospitals. Full of “ bedblockers”.
My husband had a heart attack last Wednesday when paramedics were on strike. We didn’t know whether it was even worth calling 999 but we did. Long wait, and I had just got my coat on to prepare to take him in myself when two first responders arrived. They escalated to top priority when they saw how ill he was. The paramedics broke their strike and the ambulance took him straight to the cardiac unit, no delays, no A & E, no messing, straight in. I could not have got him there physically myself and then the delays would have killed him.
The first responders and paramedics told us of many time wasters, but they have to go on the list, though in these times may not get an ambulance for hours, if at all. Tooth ache, ear ache, splinter in finger…..go bottom of the list, but in my opinion ought to be told the service is not for them.

Poppyred

Germanshepherdsmum

Get someone to take you to hospital or catch a bus if you have a suspected broken arm, Poppyred? I’m lucky I have a husband who could drive me the 28 miles to hospital. And wait for me and bring me back. Would you seriously expect a neighbour to do that? And no buses out here. I expect you’ll say I would have to pay for a taxi.
I’m glad you won’t be answering the phone if I have to call 999.

ABSOLUTELY!

You do NOT need an ambulance with a suspected broken arm! No wonder we are in such a mess!

Ambulances are first and foremost for LIFE THREATENING CIRCUMSTANCES.

Exactly- and attacks on Poppyred are totally unfair- she has dedicated her life to the service and she knows the strains are made so much worse by those who take the of the system.

Poppyred

growstuff

I'm eternally grateful you weren't my call handler when I had a heart attack Poppyred.

A heart attack IS a life threatening possibility- so you would have most certainly been given a high priority ambulance.

unless someone answering the phone thought your symptoms were trapped wind/indigestion. Nobody knows they are having a heart attack Poppyred.

I feel great sympathy for paramedics because I think they have been left on the front line dealing with not only serious health situations, but also diverse health and social problems because of lack of investment in community services, such as mental health, and elderly social care. As indeed have the police.

There are the also the the difficulties which have worsened in the last 3 years, in GP practices, where patients are unable to get timely appointments, and under investment in health professionals in the community and hospital.

Its too easy to blame the “idiot” public, when most people are nothing of the sort, and when the real problem is health and social services neglected by the government for the last 12 years.

ExperiencedNotOld

I’m the mother of a paramedic. Firstly, while the case load represented by the various ambulance programmes are sort of typical of the cases dealt with, they screen out the fighting drunks, the drug addicts and those seriously ill and needing intervention as it’s just not nice viewing.
The ambulance service and their call handlers are blamelessly caught in the middle of a constipated NHS provision. They’re happy to attend 5-8 jobs (average) during a 12 hour shift, being proactive in managing the care of an individual on an emergency basis. But the 111 service has skewed the input by referring people they’re just not sure about, and that includes many with mental health issues, some craving sympathetic contact, and knowing how to manipulate in order to get it from an ambulance attendance.
They’ll give anyone they’re sent to compassion. But sometimes receive little back. We, at large, have developed a sense of entitlement. If we don’t get what we want, the ambulance crew are an easy target for anger or complaints.
I’ve recently learnt that my daughter sometimes now fears going into work. Another shift, another job of pickling up an elderly person after a fall, another (up to 9 hr wait) outside an A&E watching that patient deteriorate, so much so it takes away their chance of full recovery.
So think on. Think of the impossible situation ambulance crew are caught up in. The attending crews go where sent, when sent. But be thankful we still have some.

Well put*ENO*. In all this the last person who should be blamed are the ambulance crew themselves.

growstuff

I'm eternally grateful you weren't my call handler when I had a heart attack Poppyred.

A heart attack IS a life threatening possibility- so you would have most certainly been given a high priority ambulance.

Experiencednotold, I have nothing but praise for paramedics, having had recently had to use 999 service. They were kind, sympathetic and very efficient. To those who suggest using our own steam to get to A&E, I don't have a defibrillator and/or nebuliser in my car. As MOnica said, when a person is in pain, or in a panic about a sudden symptom, a professional is needed to make the assessment, this is where the car paramedics come into play. Last time I took DH to A&E ( was told ambulance would be 3 hours), we arrived to find the pre-waiting area full of parents holding small children wrapped in blankets; many would likely just be childhood viruses which could be sorted with Calpol, but some will have been Strep A which is particularily virulent in this area. Would you, as a parent, take the chance?

Germanshepherdsmum

Get someone to take you to hospital or catch a bus if you have a suspected broken arm, Poppyred? I’m lucky I have a husband who could drive me the 28 miles to hospital. And wait for me and bring me back. Would you seriously expect a neighbour to do that? And no buses out here. I expect you’ll say I would have to pay for a taxi.
I’m glad you won’t be answering the phone if I have to call 999.

ABSOLUTELY!

You do NOT need an ambulance with a suspected broken arm! No wonder we are in such a mess!

Ambulances are first and foremost for LIFE THREATENING CIRCUMSTANCES.

BlueBelle If you managed two buses, how come you needed A&E? I've only ever been to A&E when I've known that my (or somebody else's) condition was possibly life-threatening or the patient couldn't move. Shouldn't you have gone to a local minor injuries unit or similar?

PerkyPiggy

I don't think there is a government agenda. I think the ambulance service is constantly abused by idiots!

Proof? Examples?

discoqueen why don’t you pay for the button round your neck that most councils run I had it for my Dad and was surprised how reasonable it was He only used a few times but to know someone was on the other end if he felt ill was great for him and me
Well said ExperiecedNotOld you are giving it from the horses mouth
Houseplantqueen I m glad you do not disbelieve my stories as they are completely true and I m pretty sure many people who live in deprived towns will tell your exactly the same we are overrun with mental health patients and no beds to offer
I m sure people living in pretty market towns or villages will find this hard to believe I suggest you talk to some call handlers and some ambulance drivers and paramedics
poppyred I can obviously believe what you are saying I recently took myself to A and E on two buses because I knew I didn’t need an ambulance there are many instances where we can help ourselves more if we are not experiencing major problems leaving the ambulances for those that really need them
I can absolutely say in my area the TV programmes are NOT exaggerating in any way

I collapsed in a heap in the bathroom earlier this year and the 111 helpline told us to call an ambulance who said we needed to go to A&E. However they suggested we should take ourselves - we were happy to do this as we have a car but not everybody can.

Get someone to take you to hospital or catch a bus if you have a suspected broken arm, Poppyred? I’m lucky I have a husband who could drive me the 28 miles to hospital. And wait for me and bring me back. Would you seriously expect a neighbour to do that? And no buses out here. I expect you’ll say I would have to pay for a taxi.
I’m glad you won’t be answering the phone if I have to call 999.

I'm eternally grateful you weren't my call handler when I had a heart attack Poppyred.

Try driving a 6'4 son with a dislocated knee, who can't bend his leg, in an ordinary car.

My DH stepped off his cycle when out biking into an unseen hole, felt his ankle go. He rang me to come and pick up him and his bike. By then we were sure his ankle was broken. Took him to A&E 25 miles away, yes it was broken and ended up being operated on (four days later, kept being put back)

Never occurred to me to call an ambulance, I know we were fortunate I could drive him there, but probably would still have been waiting for an ambulance by the time we arrived at hospital.

This was 18 months ago, he was all day in A&E, things obviously worse now.

I think the bottom line is to have empathy.

First responders - these individuals are often retired health professionals or have had long contact with providing care. But they still need commitment as well as complex training as they must get the response right.

I worked for the ambulance service for many years. The truth is that 70% of calls did not need an ambulance BUT they have to attend and access the needs of the patient, hence the mess we are in today!

Calling for an ambulance for a suspected broken arm? Get someone to take you or catch a bus!

Vomiting and diarrhoea? Stay in bed with a bucket, stay close to a toilet and keep sipping water to stay hydrated. If it lasts longer than 48 hours, phone your surgery for further advice.

Toothache? A&E will not treat you unless you have swelling affecting eye socket or compromising your breathing. Ring your gp for strong painkillers and make an emergency dental appointment.

I’m the mother of a paramedic. Firstly, while the case load represented by the various ambulance programmes are sort of typical of the cases dealt with, they screen out the fighting drunks, the drug addicts and those seriously ill and needing intervention as it’s just not nice viewing.
The ambulance service and their call handlers are blamelessly caught in the middle of a constipated NHS provision. They’re happy to attend 5-8 jobs (average) during a 12 hour shift, being proactive in managing the care of an individual on an emergency basis. But the 111 service has skewed the input by referring people they’re just not sure about, and that includes many with mental health issues, some craving sympathetic contact, and knowing how to manipulate in order to get it from an ambulance attendance.
They’ll give anyone they’re sent to compassion. But sometimes receive little back. We, at large, have developed a sense of entitlement. If we don’t get what we want, the ambulance crew are an easy target for anger or complaints.
I’ve recently learnt that my daughter sometimes now fears going into work. Another shift, another job of pickling up an elderly person after a fall, another (up to 9 hr wait) outside an A&E watching that patient deteriorate, so much so it takes away their chance of full recovery.
So think on. Think of the impossible situation ambulance crew are caught up in. The attending crews go where sent, when sent. But be thankful we still have some.

Think I'm kind of becoming that old lady!
I live alone and have looming health problems with no social support. It's scary.
I looked into retirement communities and tbh there is nothing. So plan is to get a cleaner if needed.
I was so ill over New Year that I was genuinely frightened. I've had pneumonia alone when younger, but worked, so someone would miss me.
I don't phone randomly phone the doc when off colour but was both very frightened and aware of being infectious at New Year.
Also had friends, who apparently had the same thing out partying in spite of the sniffles, in their words. Plus far worse health problems.
All of whom have family support. So I get it. That feeling of being alone, disbelieved, worthless and vulnerable.
And I'm also guilty of making my very damanding neighbour feel like this.
I have enough self esteem and fear tbh to fight if very ill, regardless of what other people, who haven't visited, think.