No medical treatment after 75?

It's worth reading this: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zeke-emanuel-why-i-want-to-die-at-75-death-5fwmr99h5

He isn't suggesting that all 75 year olds should not be allowed to have treatment as far as I can see. He's saying that it is HIS choice for himself.

It makes a lot of sense to me.
I didn't meet my ex-husband's grandmother until after she had had a major stroke. Apparently she had been the life and soul of everything, outspoken with her opinions, a real character.
When I met her she couldn't speak and was confined to bed in a care home/hospital. She went on living like this for nearly twenty years, gradually becoming unable to recognise her family, completely bedbound and dependent. Every time she stopped eating (which I believe is common a little while before death), she was intravenously fed and hydrated; this happened many times, and also had other 'life-saving' medication.
This poor lady was trapped in her body, without being able to say how she felt, what she wanted, even to express her love for her family. This was a long time ago; late 70s - 80s, but it horrifies me still.

On the other hand, my mother is 100, still reasonably fit, compos mentis apart from her short term memory, and still enjoying life.

I won't have that length of healthy life, and I would make a choice similar to the oncologist's, probably not based on age, but on when I start to feel I don't want to live.

I'm sure if the government were to cut off medical treatment for the over-75s there would be designated exceptions for the Royals, all Lords and MPs and their families and other 'elite' persons.

AussieGran59

Each to his own, I say.

I agree Aussie Gran, who knows how we will feel if it happens to us?
We will make our own minds up and not be considering what some American Dr. has said. We have a friend who said only palliative care when they got throat cancer, it was their choice. We also have a friend who had a double hip joint replacement as they knew they needed both and thought if one was done and it was very painful they would never have the other done. Not a usual choice but it was theirs and it satisfied them.

Pacemakers are only given to patients suffering from dementia if patients are symptomatic eg falling from low heart rate and maybe breaking bones. Fitting a pacemaker is a relatively easy procedure and may well prevent major injuries.

Grantanow

I prefer to think for myself, not rely on an opinionated American doctor.

I don't think he's expecting you to rely on his decision for himself and apply it to you.
He has been thinking about this for years and is just saying what he thinks is right for him.

Why do you feel he wants you to rely on him?
And why, just because he has an opinion, do you assume he is opinionated?

I believe, at 78, I'll refuse cancer treatment/ major surgery from now.

I prefer to think for myself, not rely on an opinionated American doctor.

Witzend I would not argue with you on those who have terrible anxiety with dementia, but so many people just write off people with demementia as if none of them have any quality of life, I do think we should not forget those who can live quite happily with dementia until a vey late stage.

When my H who had Alzheimer’s was diagnosed at age 82 with bladder cancer, the Consultant and I had a meeting and mutually decided not to do anything.
She explained that ,as he wouldn’t understand the treatment, it would be very difficult for him.
He also had had a major stroke, had AF, so could die during surgery, it was a no brainer for me.
He never knew he had cancer and died very peacefully 3 months later.

After my mother was 75 she had treatment for a number of conditions, including two major fractures (is he really saying if he breaks a leg he'll tell them not to fix it?) had her face rebuilt after fracturing her cheekbone, had treatment for a heart and a blood condition and many other health issues. She wasn't as mobile as she once was but she had an active social life and enjoyed her times with the wider family.
She died at 95 after a lengthy hospital stay. She died of pneumonia having signed a DNR form. Why do you have to decide at 75?

Sorry about typos ,

wellbeck.Yes it can be managed but it foednt.mean people will have no.problemd.both sons have just been diagnosed with diabetes.Alsodiet makes a fifferrncr.not supposed to eat red meat and anything containing iron,and no alcohol.both drink.but did before diagnosis
I sometimes wonder if I have it at all.as my terrorism is rarely over 100_theirs is in the 1000s
I rarely need a venesection..but I don't eat a lot of red meat and don't drink alcohol.except for maybe a glass of Bailey's very occasionally.
When they were diagnosed Drs didn't know much about Hh.supposed to be hereditary.but I don't know if anyone in my family who had it had it.My mother loved to 96 and her mother to 92_
Although don't know anything about my biological father
Haemochromatosis.is genetic and comes from both sides apparently
.
Their father days he hasn't got it.but said at first his Dr wouldn't test him for it.that was head ago.maybe things have changed.
Life expectancy was only 40 once.and was only discovered after desth.when post mortem were done.I was told
These days with treatment.just blood letting ,and diet you can live a normal life.but it isn't tested for in a normal blood test
Only when symptoms point to it.mine was discovered while testing for something else

Monica, I would not apply my criteria to every person with dementia. However for many years I was regularly visiting relatives with dementia in care homes, and although some residents seemed happy - or at least contented - enough - there were too many who were almost permanently anxious, fretting, or distressed about something - maybe something they could not even name - and could not be comforted.

One that will always be with me was a lady in her 80s who was so often crying and distressed because of ‘the baby’ she thought she’d left at home, or else her mother wouldn’t know where she was and would be so worried. Although the staff were very kind and did their best, nothing could comfort her.

Every time I visited, without fail, she’d be pacing anxiously back and forth with a large packed bag and would ask whether I had a car, and could I take her home.

To me, striving to keep any such person alive, really would be cruelty.

I’m not expecting to live much past my 75th birthday. Not being gloomy, just realistic. I would not want invasive treatment that merely prolonged my life but did not give any quality of life.

Fleurpepper

The message in this thread is very very different to the one on Assisted Dying, however.

As so often nowadays, from one extreme to the other. Medical advances mean that many with little to no quality of life, even those who openly say they have had enough- are almost 'forced to live' way beyond their choice. Medical advances are robbing them of the right to die naturally.

I think that is ridiculously arbitrary. I’m sure for every oncologist with that kind of attitude, there will be a dozen who will do what their oath demands of them and treat the sick, whatever their age and condition. There will always be a case, as Deedaa says, for saying enough is enough with cancer treatment.

We have a neighbour-just turned 90-who has no quality of life and has said often-not morbidly-that she’s had enough!

I think that the American oncologist has been rather silly to give such an arbitrary age at which he would start refusing treatments.

That said, I have known several people (all in their 80s) who openly say that they have had enough of life, and would just like to 'not wake up' one morning.

Only recently, I was chatting with a family member about just such a person. We are fairly certain that she, plus all the others we have known who felt that way, are still taking the long list of medications that has built up over the years and is prolonging their life.
Until then, I had never given it any thought, but I came to the conclusion then that if/when I reach that stage (not at a specific age), I will probably stop taking life-prolonging medication.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I get so angry when every time there is an item on the news about the crisis in the NHS it is blamed on an " increasing elderly population ". My family are getting fed up of me ranting " well then let's just shoot all the old people. That will solve the problem." In fact , if I don't stop I suspect that I won't get much older anyway!. But surely as long as someone is mentally able and can live a content life, the elderly have as much right to treatment as anyone. The other side of the same argument is to not treat any children with life limiting illnesses.

I think more people should be aware of the Respect form , or that they can make an Advance care plan, to indicate how they want to be treated, or not, in future emergencies or loss of capacity.
My husband has recently had excellent care and treatment for his heart condition following a heart attack. On the first night, he readily agreed to a DNACPR. More recently a discussion with his consultant, and a second conversation with another consultant about possible treatment which might not work and would probably prove fatal, resulted in the decision to not have surgery. Medication is ongoing, so it is not a case of refusing all treatment, but of not going for surgery which is likely to be immediately fatal. He is 76 and is happy to come home to enjoy a restricted life for as long as it lasts. I think he has made the right decision. It is up to each individual.

The message in this thread is very very different to the one on Assisted Dying, however.

Again, I have just said my piece and dont want to say anything else.

op, part of the reason why i would not would voluntary euthanasia.

Once older people want to end things themselves, well it is going to give ideas to other people.
In my opinion.

Fleurpepper

lixy

My 88 year old mum is about to fill in a Respect form as she is starting to need carers coming in. It replaces the 'do not resus' form and is much more comprehensive, It has to be done with her doctor. It will make her wishes very clear.

As said above - it's a personal and 'case-by-case' matter, not a blanket one.

But it should be led by patient, not family (as per the pace maker example above).

The whole point of the Respect form is that the person's own wishes are clear. I would recommend that anyone has one in the same way as arranging Power of Attorney is a wise precaution.