Did you watch Panorama last night?

I don't go into supermarkets very often, but I'll have a look. The ones in my cupboard are Tesco own brand. I expect they're the cheapest.

M0nica

growstuff follow up the link in my previous post. It gives a very clear defintion of the foods in each category.

Whether the food is in a tin or not is irrelevant as to whether a food is ultra processed or not. Ultra processing is what is done to the basic ingredients and the extra chemicals involved.

Norah Do you make all your own condiments? tomato sauce, brown sauce, mustards of all kinds, worcester sauce, horse radish sauce, all salad dressings, Soy sauce, etc?

Yes, I know.

growstuff

I don't go into supermarkets very often, but I'll have a look. The ones in my cupboard are Tesco own brand. I expect they're the cheapest.

Oh dear this is turning me into even more of a nerd. Tesco cannelloni beans are 65p, and these are the ingredients according to their website:
Cannellini Beans, Water, Antioxidant (Sodium Metabisulphite), Firming Agent (Calcium Chloride).
I’m going to have to stop doing this, I’m even boring myself!

Antioxidant (Sodium Metabisulphite), Firming Agent (Calcium Chloride).

Items that I bet your mother never had in her larder.

We need to see this in proportion. Items like this in tinned beans are not going to suddenly make you a size 20 and eating ready meals all day.

All you need to do is make sure, essentially, that you cook from scratch and the oddments of UPF in items you buy are highly unlikely to do you any damage.

I am continuing to buy sauces, sald dressings etc, UPFs or not. They are items consumed in small quantities so nothing to worry about.

All this conversation does not change my belief that you put on weight if you consume more calories than you burn up. and that we now live in a world where most (not all) people can afford to buy biscuits for whenever they have a hot drink, that they can afford to buy high calorie drinks in coffee shops accompanied by a flap jack, can afford to buy 2 hamburgers at a time at a fast food joint and stock up as if this time of plenty was due, soon, to be followed by a period of starvation.

The problem is starvation times never come to developed countries these days, but we keep eating as if they might because we can afford to do so.

M0nicaNorah Do you make all your own condiments? tomato sauce, brown sauce, mustards of all kinds, worcester sauce, horse radish sauce, all salad dressings, Soy sauce, etc?

Tomato sauce - yes, make from tomatoes etc.
Brown sauce - don't use, not vegan, have no recipe.
Mustards - yes, make from dry powder
Worcester sauce - not vegan
Horseradish sauce - yes, make from root and vinegar
Salad dressings - no idea the reference? Oil and vinegar?
Soy Sauce - Buy (only contains soybean, water wheat, salt)
Mayonnaise - Make using aquafabba
There are recipes for most anything.

I do agree MOnica we do need to keep it in proportion but be aware.
I am not concerned for myself but for the younger generation.
There are non UPF’s in abundance if you have the incentive to find out what they are and how to access them.
No need to give up on pizza for example. Buy bases and top them yourself.
Understand that if you have zero calories in your drink it doesn’t mean you deserve to have chips as a side order!
I am aware that zero calorie drinks are to be avoided, of course, at all costs 🤦🏼‍♀️

Quorn is without doubt an ultra-processed food. Does that bother the people who eat it?

PamelaJ1

I do agree MOnica we do need to keep it in proportion but be aware.
I am not concerned for myself but for the younger generation.
There are non UPF’s in abundance if you have the incentive to find out what they are and how to access them.
No need to give up on pizza for example. Buy bases and top them yourself.
Understand that if you have zero calories in your drink it doesn’t mean you deserve to have chips as a side order!
I am aware that zero calorie drinks are to be avoided, of course, at all costs 🤦🏼‍♀️

You should be concerned for older people too, many of whom buy ready meals as they become too frail to cook using a number of ingredients.

growstuff
I take your point but they, at least, have perhaps had many years old healthy eating behind them.

Of!

M0nica

^Antioxidant (Sodium Metabisulphite), Firming Agent (Calcium Chloride).^

Items that I bet your mother never had in her larder.

We need to see this in proportion. Items like this in tinned beans are not going to suddenly make you a size 20 and eating ready meals all day.

All you need to do is make sure, essentially, that you cook from scratch and the oddments of UPF in items you buy are highly unlikely to do you any damage.

I am continuing to buy sauces, sald dressings etc, UPFs or not. They are items consumed in small quantities so nothing to worry about.

All this conversation does not change my belief that you put on weight if you consume more calories than you burn up. and that we now live in a world where most (not all) people can afford to buy biscuits for whenever they have a hot drink, that they can afford to buy high calorie drinks in coffee shops accompanied by a flap jack, can afford to buy 2 hamburgers at a time at a fast food joint and stock up as if this time of plenty was due, soon, to be followed by a period of starvation.

The problem is starvation times never come to developed countries these days, but we keep eating as if they might because we can afford to do so.

It’s not the weight aspect to UPFs that concerns me, it’s the impact it has on gut flora, and unknown cumulative effects to body function. I’m not overweight, but I do have various food sensitivities which have worsened in recent years, so trying to cut them out as much as possible is worth trying.

Casdon, when my psoriasis was really bad my sister sent me a book - Artritis, Allergies and the environment by Dr John Chapman. A man ahead of his time I think. I did the diet in it that concentrated on gut health. It helped my psoriasis enormously.

PamelaJ1 concern for the younger generation but parents should be teaching their children to cook. I brought my children up to cook from scratch like my parents taught me and they are bring my grandson's on food that is cooked from scratch. They know where food comes from and it's not just from supermarket. Like me they grow some of their own veg and fruit in their gardens. Also cooking food from scratch is not only healthier but cheaper. I make my own jams, marmalades and chutneys but my way as I have mobility problems. So they never turn out like shop brought as I know exactly what goes on them and especially my chutney's aren't boiled to death and have thickening agents or preservatives. But they still keep for 2 years unopened and once open stored in the fridge and keep for months but that they last that long.

Because of my mobility I can't cook everyday so batch cook at stew or lasagne enough dinner for 6 dinners portioned into oven proof dishes just to reheat and kept in the fridge Do the same with my lunch time lentil and veg soup which I have all year round as my way of eating has helped me lose 7st since 2017. Always have porridge cooked in the microwave every breakfast.

It's up to parents to teach their children healthy eating habits. I am guilty of being morbidly obese but that's because I eat to much of the good stuff not processed foods. Was over 19st size 32 now just over 12st size 16. Still want to lose a stone but losing weight is a marathon not a sprint. If I only lose quarter of a pound I am happy. Some weeks stay the same some weeks put on but the main thing I haven't given up weighting and measuring everything I eat and drink and counting calories even on the days I over eat . I always know how many calories I am over by. You can still lose weight at any age and exercise . I am now 65 and go to a sit fit exercise class. But we get a full work out we use resist bands and weights and do some exercises holding on to the back of the chair.

As consumers we choose what we buy . I thought it had come to the thin end of the wedge years ago when I first saw fresh sliced mushrooms. It doesn't take any effort to slice a mushroom even with limited mobility.

It’s not the weight aspect to UPFs that concerns me, it’s the impact it has on gut flora, and unknown cumulative effects to body function. I’m not overweight, but I do have various food sensitivities which have worsened in recent years, so trying to cut them out as much as possible is worth trying.

Casdon I am in total agreement with you and I have been wary of all the unknown chemicals and de natured items in manufactured foodstuffs since the late 1970s, but I am reading the book by whichever van Tulliken brother it is that has written it, but at the moment he is a bit like any zealot with a new cause and seems to beleive that all society's ills are caused by additives and denatured food ingredients, in much the same way that Tim Spector believes the biome is the answer to everything.

This is not to dismiss either Spector or van Tulliken, but neither of them has discovered the Holy Grail of solving the obesity crisis, although I do believe that both of them are offering new insights into our complex relationship with food.

Whiff
Of course you are correct but whatever you did for your children has no impact on what is happening today.
The reason why so many people are worried about the younger generation is because they are set to grow up with more health problems than we would have expected a few years ago. This will impact not only on their lives and productiveness but on our overstretched services.

M0nica

^It’s not the weight aspect to UPFs that concerns me, it’s the impact it has on gut flora, and unknown cumulative effects to body function. I’m not overweight, but I do have various food sensitivities which have worsened in recent years, so trying to cut them out as much as possible is worth trying.^

Casdon I am in total agreement with you and I have been wary of all the unknown chemicals and de natured items in manufactured foodstuffs since the late 1970s, but I am reading the book by whichever van Tulliken brother it is that has written it, but at the moment he is a bit like any zealot with a new cause and seems to beleive that all society's ills are caused by additives and denatured food ingredients, in much the same way that Tim Spector believes the biome is the answer to everything.

This is not to dismiss either Spector or van Tulliken, but neither of them has discovered the Holy Grail of solving the obesity crisis, although I do believe that both of them are offering new insights into our complex relationship with food.

The food we eat and our gut biome are inextricably linked and Spectre's research focus is exactly that ie how does what we eat affect the gut biome and how does our gut biome affect our health? Although I don't have a weight problem I am worried by the weight gain issue of those eating a high UHP diet. Stand at the gates of any primary school and you will see overweight children, theses children will probably become obese adults with all the health issues that this brings. If the type of food they are eating is making them fat, then we need to have definite proof so we can start to use legislation. We know from our experience of smoking that those industries involved in the production of food will use every means possible to disprove links to food which is why getting funding for nutritional studies can be so difficult.

PamelaJ1

Casdon, when my psoriasis was really bad my sister sent me a book - Artritis, Allergies and the environment by Dr John Chapman. A man ahead of his time I think. I did the diet in it that concentrated on gut health. It helped my psoriasis enormously.

I thought that sounded an interesting read, so just looked it up - I think it’s John Mansfield?

Sorry Stacyann brain fog!
My husband did the elimination diet. Turns out that bananas were his problem and his migraines almost disappeared when he gave them up.

Staceyann

PamelaJ1

Casdon, when my psoriasis was really bad my sister sent me a book - Artritis, Allergies and the environment by Dr John Chapman. A man ahead of his time I think. I did the diet in it that concentrated on gut health. It helped my psoriasis enormously.

I thought that sounded an interesting read, so just looked it up - I think it’s John Mansfield?

Thanks both, it does sound interesting, and may potentially help my aching knees.

Casdon

Staceyann

PamelaJ1

Casdon, when my psoriasis was really bad my sister sent me a book - Artritis, Allergies and the environment by Dr John Chapman. A man ahead of his time I think. I did the diet in it that concentrated on gut health. It helped my psoriasis enormously.

I thought that sounded an interesting read, so just looked it up - I think it’s John Mansfield?

Thanks both, it does sound interesting, and may potentially help my aching knees.

It seems to me elimination of different foods solve many health related problems. Colon is most unhappy when I don't follow plan. One daughter is allergic to soy - easy to avoid by scratch cooking. Same to eggs.

Whiff 1 concern for the younger generation but parents should be teaching their children to cook. I brought my children up to cook from scratch like my parents taught me and they are bring my grandson's on food that is cooked from scratch. They know where food comes from and it's not just from supermarket. Like me they grow some of their own veg and fruit in their gardens. Also cooking food from scratch is not only healthier but cheaper.

I agree, but I suppose some will argue about time, as if we don't all have 24 hours in every day within which to cook.

I make my own jams, marmalades and chutneys but my way as I have mobility problems. So they never turn out like shop brought as I know exactly what goes on them and especially my chutney's aren't boiled to death and have thickening agents or preservatives. But they still keep for 2 years unopened and once open stored in the fridge and keep for months but that they last that long.

Agreed If we eat it we prepare it - no need of jars of jam, chutney, tomato sauce, mayonnaise, broth - easily homemade.

Perhaps a 'campaign' not buying junk food - for obesity issues?

I don't actually eat much UPF's but I find it difficult to watch these things without being slightly cynical. I ate Margarine because it was better than butter...wrong! I limited eggs because of the cholesterol...wrong! I have followed the food pyramid...wrong! Coffee is bad for me, good for me and now I really don't know. Total safe Alcohol units have changed. I have tried to up my Good Cholesterol and lower the bad...triglycerides are the real killer for me. Most research is funded by people who have a financial interest in the outcome so I find it difficult to take it all seriously.

icanhandthemback

I don't actually eat much UPF's but I find it difficult to watch these things without being slightly cynical. I ate Margarine because it was better than butter...wrong! I limited eggs because of the cholesterol...wrong! I have followed the food pyramid...wrong! Coffee is bad for me, good for me and now I really don't know. Total safe Alcohol units have changed. I have tried to up my Good Cholesterol and lower the bad...triglycerides are the real killer for me. Most research is funded by people who have a financial interest in the outcome so I find it difficult to take it all seriously.

Quite right and pretty much what i’ve been saying on here.
Theories come and go, diets come and go, recommendations do too. I remember when I was told my cholesterol was too high and the nurse told me to avoid prawns, avocado and something else which I Now can’t remember. She even gave me a NHS leaflet about it. That all proved wrong.

Years ago Doctors used to tell people to rest and sleep on a board if they had a bad back. That’s completely wrong now … advice is stay active!

A daily aspirin was recommended by doctors to avoid heart attacks. My mum got them on prescription but was told at the hospital that is no longer the case and not to order any more.

I very briefly went on to low fat spreads years ago but discovered they are just one molecule away from being plastic and have eaten proper butter ever since which is delicious and better for me.

I say do what your mind and body tells you. I think you are right to be cynical. I have lost too many friends who analysed everything they ate in case it was bad for them, several like my SIL were vegetarians and she passed away aged just 66.

My parents and most older people I know eat what they like and live to great ages around here.

I am glad I am not alone, Primrose53!

I wouldn't go as far as you Primrose, and ignore everything. Nutritional science is a very young science, they are about where other sciences were in the mid 19th century, so they are finding their way and each new trend has something to offer to our overall knowledge of nutrition,but there is a tendency to see every new insight as the euteka moment that will solve all society's ills.

As I mentioned, I am reading van Tulliken's book and I understand what he is saying and can see that all these denatured ingredients and chemicals may be doing harm to our bodies, but he writes as if for him, this discovery is the eureka moment that will solve all society's ills, and this I really do not buy.

His conviction that people are addicted to food and eating these products because they are designed to appeal and they cannot resist, quite frankly is bunkum.

Over the last four or more decades I have found at various times I have begun to not enjoy foodstuffs I used to enjoy, bread was the first, meat, biscuits and looking back, after chance encounters, with pre industrial style food - bread from a traditional baker, meat from an organic farmer, I have thought about it and found in each case, my distaste for foods I had previously enjoyed, dates back to when, for example, the new 'Chorleywood process' for baking bread came in - adding chemicals to shorten the proving time and then steam cooking. My disinterest in meat becgan when industrial production of beef, which required feeding them maize, soya, and rape, with growth promoters started.

I am sure these I am not the only one who reacted like this to these changes, so the idea that we as a society are addicted to them is hard to take and his own addictive need for them in the experiment he underwent to write the book, sounds more as if he has an addictive personality, than that society has one.

Whilst I agree with you that certain foods have definitely lost their appeal due to production methods, Monica, I think it is perfectly possible to be addicted to food. Sugars are addictive because they activate the same part of the brain as cocaine which is the hardest drug to wean somebody off. I know for myself, I have to go 'cold turkey' if I increase my sugar intake because gradually I need more and more of it because it doesn't have the sweetness hit. I also have a slump when it has worn off and I crave more. I try really hard to resist (and do more easily once I have been on the wagon for a couple of weeks) but sometimes it gets the better of me. I am not generally greedy but highly sugared stuff is a real problem to me.